Eastern Townships vs. Burke/Wildcat/Jay???

[Gpaul]

Hola! We are planning our spring vacation, this time to Quebec and Northeast, starting on 3/25 until 4/10 (skiing until we have enough time to drive to BTV to be there by 5pm (flight leaves at 6:45pm).

We love Sugarloaf and Stowe, and enjoy Stratton and Cannon, for LONG STEEP GROOMERS. Found Tremblant lame, Killington a cruiser's nightmare due to traverses cutting thru runs. Out west Snowbasin, Snowmass, Sun Valley and The Canyons our favorites.

Originally had planned starting with 5-6 days in Eastern Townships, but after looking at stats. and trail maps am seriously concerning skipping that area, except for maybe 1 day at Orford and their main drag, if it's not on strike!

Never been to Burke nor Wildcat, but many of y'all give them top billing for our likes. So..... should we bypass the Townships in favor of this (assuming good conditions of course):

3/25,26 Burke
3/27,28 Wildcat
3/29,30 Sunday River (just to cut driving time to Sugarloaf)
3/31, 4/1,2,3 Sugarloaf
4/4-9 Mont St. Anne and Le Massif (and doing tourist stuff in Quebec et al)
4/10 Orford or Jay or Stowe or Sugarbush

Help! And gracias!

 

[thetrailboss]

Have not been to the areas in Canada that you mention, but from what I've heard, Owl's Head has the same total vert as if you were skiing the upper mountain at Burke. So vert-wise, Burke (2000) has more than Owl's Head and probably a fair number of the places up there.

If you were to do Burke, I'd do it on that last weekend in March because crowds are not bad at all on weekends. Time it right and you can be there for the biggest party....pond skimming. Burke also historically closes in early April or so. The cruisers are very good (steep and consistent pitch). Sample the Dipper's, Warren's Way (if there is no race happening), Willoughby, Lower Bear Den, and Lower Fox's are good cruisers. The lower mountain is now a good place to do some easier laps now thanks to the HSQ.

That said, Jay is a different animal than Burke. No good cruising terrain except for maybe Stateside. Glades are where it's at and if you don't do glades, there is not too much else that will wow you. The trails are decent--some steep fall line section runs. A lot of trails slab across the fall line and the crowds can be on some weekends. The tram is a cool ride, assuming that there is no wind....and I mean NO WIND. If there is some wind (read: there are some days that the Upper Mountain lifts don't operate) you may be taking a risk.

As for WC: ask awf170. He skis there all the time.

 

[ChileMass]

Orford is great. My family and friends go there every Feb. If you like long steep cruisers (as I do), Orford is the place for you. Grande Coulee, Trois Ruisseaux (3 Brooks), Maxi and Magnum will make you happy all day if there's snow.

Late Mar/early April is pushing the end of the season, especially the way the last few seasons have gone and the warm start for this year. But you never know. That far north is certainly your best bet. I have not skied Sutton or Owl's Head, but I hear they are just OK, nothing to make a special effort to ski. The exchange rate is always nice to take advantage of, but if money is not a problem, I would defintely go to Wildcat if you can. If you're in NH and you like cruisers, Bretton Woods is another hill to check out. It's defintely not steep, but the views of the Presidentials on a clear day are worth every penny.

Another hill to check out that's in the neighborhood is Saddleback in Rangeley, ME. It's sort of on your way form Maine to Quebec and they have made some substantial improvements the last few years from what I have read (haven't actually skied there since I was a kid). Have fun.

 

[snowconehead]

That said, Jay is a different animal than Burke. No good cruising terrain except for maybe Stateside.

Wow, that's not my impression of Jay. I found it a great cruising mountain and that didn't include Stateside. Stateside can be one hell-ov-a powder area if it snows. It's steep, fall line skiing and prabably steeper than anything in Quebec. What I like about Jay vs. Quebec skiing would be that there are so many Canadians there, you might as well be in Quebec. It has a very French atmosphere and there's nothing like it in the rest of Vt. Burke has a totally different ambience. It's a young croud, fast skiing and in general rather challenging.

 

[nelsapbm]

Definately try both. Burke, as said above, has great upper intermediate cruising terrain. I really liked Mont Sutton in Quebec. It's very different...the sois-bois (check out their website) are very fun.
Start at Burke, then Jay, then Owls Head, Orford, and Sutton, and if you have another day before having to fly out, Smuggler's Notch on your way back to Burlington.

 

[thetrailboss]

Wow, that's not my impression of Jay. I found it a great cruising mountain and that didn't include Stateside. Stateside can be one hell-ov-a powder area if it snows. It's steep, fall line skiing and prabably steeper than anything in Quebec. What I like about Jay vs. Quebec skiing would be that there are so many Canadians there, you might as well be in Quebec. It has a very French atmosphere and there's nothing like it in the rest of Vt. Burke has a totally different ambience. It's a young croud, fast skiing and in general rather challenging.

Where is the cruising terrain at Jay then? Steep cruising terrain that is.

 

[snowconehead]

You shouldn't miss Wildcat if it's a clear day. It's the best viewing in the East. According to one of the Ski Mags it's the best view in N.A. Sunday river wouldn't be worth the detour. The skiing isn't as steep or big as Wildcat. Wasting two days there wouldn't be my advise. Bethel is worth a stop and perhaps an overnight, but if you actually want to ski Sugarloaf and explore Me., don't stay long. You're also talking long distances and rather difficult winter roads for the most part. It always amazes me that tourists like you are so poorly informed about this and the nature of the skiing in the North East. You will find better skiing in Vermont than you will at Mont St. Ann and Le Massif. In fact Orford and Owl's head should be much more enjoyable than those larger, more open and crouded Quebec areas. If you are interested in French Quebec culture, you should go to Owl's head as I believe it's a very French area. I knew this English guy who rented a car in Boston and drove all the way to Mont St. Ann to ski. After the trip he told me about it. He was amazed that I said there was excellent skiing in Vermont as all he saw was the trees. In fact there is better skiing in Vermont. Stowe shouldn't be missed by anyone. The skiing is good, but the village is quite international and exceptionally memorable. Nothing on your intinerary gives you the New England charm and alure like a visit to Stowe.

 

[56fish]

Where is the cruising terrain at Jay then? Steep cruising terrain that is.

Jet, Haynes & Derrick's on Stateside best I can figure. Woods/bump (esp late season when woods are bumped) skills definitely nec to enjoy Jay. Burke rules for fast cruising! It's the only reason I have two boards.

 

[thetrailboss]

Jet, Haynes & Derrick's on Stateside best I can figure. Woods/bump (esp late season when woods are bumped) skills definitely nec to enjoy Jay. Burke rules for fast cruising! It's the only reason I have two boards.

Yes, that was my point exactly. For steep cruising, Stateside is it, but nothing else really at Jay.

 

[FridayHiker]

You shouldn't miss Wildcat if it's a clear day. It's the best viewing in the East. According to one of the Ski Mags it's the best view in N.A. Sunday river wouldn't be worth the detour. The skiing isn't as steep or big as Wildcat.

I must be the only person on this board who doesn't really care for Wildcat. Besides the view, I just don't get the appeal. I'd much rather spend two days at Sunday River than at Wildcat, especially if I'm staying on the trails.

 

[ChileMass]

........It always amazes me that tourists like you are so poorly informed about this and the nature of the skiing in the North East.....

Hey - give the guy a break! You gotta start somewhere........

........You will find better skiing in Vermont than you will at Mont St. Ann and Le Massif. In fact Orford and Owl's head should be much more enjoyable than those larger, more open and crouded Quebec areas. If you are interested in French Quebec culture, you should go to Owl's head as I believe it's a very French area. I knew this English guy who rented a car in Boston and drove all the way to Mont St. Ann to ski. After the trip he told me about it..........

So snowconehead - where have you skied in Quebec? I go to Orford every year and want to consider some of the other hills in the area. If you have specific recommendations, I'd appreciate the info...........

 

[MikeTrainor]

I must be the only person on this board who doesn't really care for Wildcat. Besides the view, I just don't get the appeal. I'd much rather spend two days at Sunday River than at Wildcat, especially if I'm staying on the trails.

Everyone has their own appeal. Even if you stay on the trails, wildcat's runs are much longer than SR, SR has some of the shortest runs, I would bet there is not one peak that has over 1,000 vertical there. Also I don't find myself pushing myself accross the mtn all day. But again different people like different things.

 

[FridayHiker]

I would bet there is not one peak that has over 1,000 vertical there.

So, um, just curious: how much would you bet? :grin:

For the record, total vertical is 2340, though you wouldn't want to ski that unless you love traverses. Vertical of the various peaks ranges from 1000 to 1630, with only three of them (Oz, Aurora, and North Peak) under 1400'. Sure, it's less than Wildcat, but it's not as small as you think.

 

[nelsapbm]

Well, you can scratch Mont Orford off your list. According to a Montreal news outlet, the mountain will not operate this season:
http://www.940news.com/locale.php?news=3276

 

[kingdom-tele]

although it is a bit out of the way - I would suggest you consider mont st anne and le massif in QC - that late in the year the snowpack will be far deeper than all of new england so no risk of running into boney trails, and whoever said le massif isn't worth it probably hasn't skied it, I don't think you will find a mountain on the east coast with longer groomed trails and sustained pitch - 2500 vert of sustained drop to the st lawrence, if long groomers are your game then le massif is not to be missed - beware though, if you go on a weekend the lines are one step beyond rediculous

 

[MikeTrainor]

So, um, just curious: how much would you bet? :grin:

For the record, total vertical is 2340, though you wouldn't want to ski that unless you love traverses. Vertical of the various peaks ranges from 1000 to 1630, with only three of them (Oz, Aurora, and North Peak) under 1400'. Sure, it's less than Wildcat, but it's not as small as you think.

Total vertical I would assume would be from the top of Jordan to the bottom of south ridge, which is mainly traversing. It just seems like a small vertical to me. Black Mt. in NH is only 1,100 and the runs seem longer than SR peaks.

 

[eatskisleep]

Okay here is my take on Wildcat...

The cruisers are nice... some have some nice twists and turns in them.

If you like consisten vertical this is the place. 2,112 feet of it (if I recall correctly) all of which is serviced by the fastest high speed quad in NH. The ride up is about 6-7 minutes long depending on where you start timing it. Every year they have a competition down the trail Lynx for how many runs you can get in during a day. 59 was the record for 2005 meaning it is possible to get over 100,000 vertical feet in a day (well the lifts opened a little earlier than usual).

I have a season's pass at Wildcat. I think this will be my third season owning one. I personally get it becasue it is cheap, but the terrain is great too.

Consistent vertical is the main great thing about Wildcat! Some of the classic runs like "Wildcat" and "Polecat" are awesome... as well as the runs that aren't so much for cruisers but more so experts like Hairball.

The woods skiing there is awesome. I know of a guy who can ski there all day, in the woods, and never ski the same thing twice. It is like the MRG on NH. Wildcat also lets some trails bump up. Not to mention the fact that the Sping Skiing is great!

The view can't be beat either... bring binoclars if you have them and take a quick look over at Tuckerman Ravine.

If you are in the area, I also reccomend chacking out Black Mountain of NH. It is small but a lot of fun, and there is some truly classic New England style trails there.