Enjoying Closed runs on days with big dumps.

[HowieT2]

And they were allowing folks to hike over, with a patroller at the top of the 'Rock, right? See, that is different because Patrol is out there and monitoring things. With closed terrain they generally don't.

Correct. They opened the top of paradise, which was closed, to facilitate access to the long trail over to castlerock. Patrol is out on the trails at castlerock and sweeps them at the end of the day. If a trail isnt "open" here, there is a damn good reason for it and it shouldnt be poached.

 

[Hawkshot99]

Trails are closed for a reason whether you know the reason or not.

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[deadheadskier]

So all you naysayers never duck ropes ever?

 

[thetrailboss]

So all you naysayers never duck ropes ever?

Nope. I can only recall ducking a rope once and it was on an AZ Outing with our former fearless leader calling the shot! :lol: After we all agreed that it was not worth it.

 

[steamboat1]

I only recall doing it twice. Once at Pico in the spring Sunset was closed. A friend & myself went down & I was waiting to hit a bare spot while skiing down. Never found it & that trail wound up having the best skiing on the mountain that day. We did many repeats.

Another time at Mt. Snow we were viewing a trail from the chair & it looked excellent but was closed. We went down & found out why it was closed. The whole trail had an unbreakable crust on top & was a sheet of ice.

On the other hand I've skied many trails that were open that should have been closed.

 

[Edd]

I've ducked a number of ropes. I've got no defense. Sometimes the Spirit moves me.

 

[Hawkshot99]

So all you naysayers never duck ropes ever?

I used to bw willing to it sparingly. But after becoming friends with many patrollers you realize there are reasons trails are closed.

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[deadheadskier]

I used to bw willing to it sparingly. But after becoming friends with many patrollers you realize there are reasons trails are closed.

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Your patroler friends are quite different than the ones I knew in Stowe or Ragged. Can't say I've gotten to know many at other hills.

Guess many of you folks are better citizens than I.

I'm with rivercoil on this one. I think it's fine to ski closed terrain provided you use good judgment and take personal responsibility for yourself. When I say good judgment, that means knowing the mountain and being cognizant of recent weather there. I'm not going to go to say Whiteface, where I've never been and start ducking ropes, but at say Stowe where I know practically ever square inch of the mountain? Yup, in a heartbeat.

It's interesting to hear all the Sugarbush folks being adamantly against ducking ropes. That attitude couldn't be more opposite at Stowe. While Stowe is far from as liberal as Sugarbush at opening up marginal terrain, to the regulars there, ropes are merely a suggestion. I can't tell you how many times I've run into Patrol (and not always ones I knew back in the day) on closed trails. Never once did I receive a warning or threat of a pulled pass. They essentially size you up and see if you have the chops and if you do, they'll say, "have fun, be safe and I never saw you here." Same goes for Ragged. I've actually been caught by patrol in the Ravine at Ragged and ended up riding the lift back up with them and skiing it with them again just to "make sure" it should stay "closed." :lol:

So, I guess I disagree with many of you on rope ducking beliefs. I've been skiing 30 years and only a handful of times out of hundreds and hundreds have I ended up regretting skiing closed terrain.

Hope you all don't look down upon the many, many AZers who were ducking ropes all weekend at Sugarloaf. :lol:

 

[riverc0il]

I've been skiing 30 years and only a handful of times out of hundreds and hundreds have I ended up regretting skiing closed terrain.

This is right on point. If people have a 99.9% success rate when it comes to skiing closed trails (i.e. 99.9% the duck was worth it -- if not the best skiing on the mountain), then the patrol is doing something wrong. Some patrols get it and their ropes are respected as actually being meaningful.

 

[skisheep]

At least at Whiteface, when something is closed, it probably is for a reason. Unfortunatley(but increasingly rarely), the iceface monkier rings true, and when they close stuff that looks good, that's why, it is just a sheet of ice and unskiable. Have seen people try to ski stuff that's closed, when it's a sheet of ice, and needless to say it does not end well. They usually are pretty liberal about opening stuff, and once something's open, it dosen't get closed unless it's horrible. Especially last spring during the torch to end torches, there were plenty of trails that were open that should not have been...

-skisheep

 

[deadheadskier]

This is right on point. If people have a 99.9% success rate when it comes to skiing closed trails (i.e. 99.9% the duck was worth it -- if not the best skiing on the mountain), then the patrol is doing something wrong. Some patrols get it and their ropes are respected as actually being meaningful.

The exception is when there's enough snow for something to ski great with minimal traffic, but not enough to sustain being open. The Ragged experience was such a day. The Ravine never opened to the public that day. It skied incredible, but the traffic an opening would've brought would cause them to have to close it in a half an hour. So, we considered it packing down the base for the next storm to get it open.

 

[takeahike46er]

At least at Whiteface, when something is closed, it probably is for a reason. Unfortunatley(but increasingly rarely), the iceface monkier rings true, and when they close stuff that looks good, that's why, it is just a sheet of ice and unskiable. Have seen people try to ski stuff that's closed, when it's a sheet of ice, and needless to say it does not end well. They usually are pretty liberal about opening stuff, and once something's open, it dosen't get closed unless it's horrible. Especially last spring during the torch to end torches, there were plenty of trails that were open that should not have been...

-skisheep

I don't entirely agree. One example is Empire. Even when it is skiing beautifully, it will in most cases be closed. It isn't uncommon for patrol to drop the rope many days after a storm has passed through. Patrol is also very conservative opening the glades.

 

[Huck_It_Baby]

At Smuggs today my buddy got busted for ducking a rope off Madonna. It was our last run of the day and patrol swiped his ticket but they were pretty cool about it and they skied the run together. He said it was his best run of the day. Untracked powder.

I duck ropes but I think you can generally get to the "closed" terrain more creatively than a blatant duck. A strategic traverse will usually do the trick.

Sometimes there are good reasons a trail is closed and the majority of skiers should stay clear. Many of us on this board are decent skiers, tree skiers, BC skiers, etc and it's not as if we can't handle the conditions or terrain. The weekend skier and vacationer would do well do avoid closed runs.

However many resorts let you ski open glades and they have signs that there are rocks, stumps, creeks and natural obstacles and that the woods are not patrolled. I don't see any difference in this and a closed trail. By most accounts a closed trail that probably has some amount of base is safer than skiing a natural glade.

 

[riverc0il]

Smuggs is a good example of an area too conservative with ropes and disrespectful of skiers making their own assessment of the conditions, their abilities, and tolerance for base damage. And I'm not talking about trails like Liftline or Robin's Run. I've had some incredible reserved days there when they kept ropes up on the blue squares off M2 which are all flat, low angle, and well pruned/manicured. Same trail and same conditions would be open at places like MRG, Jay, Stowe, Bush, Magic, etc.

 

[STREETSKIER]

Sugarbush has best trail open policy in the game. Magic is pretty good about it too from what I have seen (trails open with multiple full width exposed waterbars).

Respect to both those players.

MrgAlso otherwise they wouldn't be open

 

[STREETSKIER]

At sb they open trails to get trail counts up lots of pressure from others, most of the time I skip the openings because I care about my gear i don't poach no need to . Usually wait til its good cover
!! But then again I get out a lot so I'm fussy let the gung ho's beat there skis up ,spills is always open have not been on it. Inyears it never heals. HAve fun that's what it's about

 

[dmc]

NSP is under the gun about poaching after a ski patroller was killed on a closed trail last year out west...
OSHA got involved..

Hunter is cracking down.. But rightfully so.. No good could come from 8"-10" of blower on rock.. And sure enough someone tried to poach 44 and got airlifted out.. Now the hammer is down harder and 2 people were arrested last weekend and many tickets taken..

No ski patroller should have to do a rescue on a bare trail covered in rock and ice.. I dangerous to them and selfish..

 

[drjeff]

NSP is under the gun about poaching after a ski patroller was killed on a closed trail last year out west...
OSHA got involved..

Hunter is cracking down.. But rightfully so.. No good could come from 8"-10" of blower on rock.. And sure enough someone tried to poach 44 and got airlifted out.. Now the hammer is down harder and 2 people were arrested last weekend and many tickets taken..

No ski patroller should have to do a rescue on a bare trail covered in rock and ice.. I dangerous to them and selfish..

+1

 

[MadMadWorld]

One big pet peeve of mine.....mountains that keep trails closed to save them for holidays/vacations. It happens all the time and it drives me nuts.

 

[Hawkshot99]

NSP is under the gun about poaching after a ski patroller was killed on a closed trail last year out west...
OSHA got involved..

Hunter is cracking down.. But rightfully so.. No good could come from 8"-10" of blower on rock.. And sure enough someone tried to poach 44 and got airlifted out.. Now the hammer is down harder and 2 people were arrested last weekend and many tickets taken..

No ski patroller should have to do a rescue on a bare trail covered in rock and ice.. I dangerous to them and selfish..

+1. But I am sure that person on 44 knew more than patrol.

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