Enjoying Closed runs on days with big dumps.

[dmc]

I just can't believe people are SOOOO F'ing stupid as to think they can ride a trail with 8" of blower and no base..

Do they think EVERY trail is a meadow with grass and flowers??!?!?!

No - it's the Catskills... We got a ton of rocks around.. big ones... sharp ones... Rocks that will ALWAYS win...

 

[ss20]

I just can't believe people are SOOOO F'ing stupid as to think they can ride a trail with 8" of blower and no base..

Do they think EVERY trail is a meadow with grass and flowers??!?!?!

No - it's the Catskills... We got a ton of rocks around.. big ones... sharp ones... Rocks that will ALWAYS win...

Harsh. If it's 8 inches, you'll be able to see the larger rocks and obstacles and you'll avoid them.

 

[dmc]

Except for all those rocks that are less than 8"...
That's harsh... Cartwheeling down a rocky trail after catching a rock under the snow...

It was solid rock underneath that blower pow.. Nobody can tell me they can ride/ski that shit safely..

 

[ss20]

I was skiing yesterday at Catamount when I poached...and failed. Here's a video of it

Guess what thread I was thinking about?

 

[dmc]

Glad you didn't get hurt...

 

[deadheadskier]

I just can't believe people are SOOOO F'ing stupid as to think they can ride a trail with 8" of blower and no base..

Do they think EVERY trail is a meadow with grass and flowers??!?!?!

No - it's the Catskills... We got a ton of rocks around.. big ones... sharp ones... Rocks that will ALWAYS win...

Well that person was an idiot. I would never consider poaching in such conditions.

However, I did poach Misery Whip at Sugarloaf this weekend. Only rope I ducked this weekend. This was Friday after 4-5 inches of snow had fallen. Underneath was a 2 foot base of man made that was glazed over from the warm up. Now, I was the third person down and it was good. It wasn't very good for those behind me, but I wouldn't necessarily call it bad. I actually don't mind skiing something completely bullet proof from time to time. I enjoy the challenge and it keeps my skills sharp for when I hit nasty skied off patches on generally decent snow trails.

The trail shouldn't have been closed IMO. I don't think the dozen or so folks who skied it with me would say the trail should have been closed either because they had the skills to ski it. An intermediate level skier would've been screwed on it. Well, it's a Double Diamond trail, they shouldn't be on it even when the snow is good.

I stand by my stance that good judgment and personal responsibility is what matters when poaching something or even skiing open terrain. Ski Patrol shouldn't be making judgment calls based on factoring in situations where an unskilled skier or rider uses bad judgment and might get in over their head.

 

[dmc]

I stand by my stance that good judgment and personal responsibility is what matters when poaching something or even skiing open terrain. Ski Patrol shouldn't be making judgment calls based on factoring in situations where an unskilled skier or rider uses bad judgment and might get in over their head.

As long as it doesn't endanger the patrollers - that's my big issue...

 

[deadheadskier]

As long as it doesn't endanger the patrollers - that's my big issue...

Well in the case of Misery Whip on Friday, if a patroller couldn't ski those conditions and be able to perform a rescue if needed, then they shouldn't be a patroller.

 

[from_the_NEK]

This is right on point. If people have a 99.9% success rate when it comes to skiing closed trails (i.e. 99.9% the duck was worth it -- if not the best skiing on the mountain), then the patrol is doing something wrong. Some patrols get it and their ropes are respected as actually being meaningful.

I'll admit it, I'm a ducker but usually I know what I'm getting into.

I ducked several ropes at Widcat this weekend. All ducks involved at least a short section of trail that was nasty (giving a good reason for the closing) but passible. However, one ducked rope was a REAL bad idea (i was following another guy in the group that knew the mtn better). I had a hard time figuring out how they could EVER open that trail, even on a decent snow year. It was a short one but it was steep and all boulders with only the 24" of fluff on top. I can't believe I got out of that one with no core shots.

 

[thetrailboss]

I was skiing yesterday at Catamount when I poached...and failed. Here's a video of it

Guess what thread I was thinking about?

Why poach a liftline with folks overhead watching? I'd prefer to be more elusive.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'll admit it, I'm a ducker but usually I know what I'm getting into.

I ducked several ropes at Widcat this weekend. All ducks involved at least a short section of trail that was nasty (giving a good reason for the closing) but passible. However, one ducked rope was a REAL bad idea (i was following another guy in the group that knew the mtn better). I had a hard time figuring out how they could EVER open that trail, even on a decent snow year. It was a short one but it was steep and all boulders with only the 24" of fluff on top. I can't believe I got out of that one with no core shots.

Sounds like Hairball. Takes a ton of snow for that to fill in and even at really deep snow pack levels at Wildcat, it's really difficult to ski that trail without doing some damage; jumping rocky sections is pretty much mandatory.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Why poach a liftline with folks overhead watching? I'd prefer to be more elusive.

It makes it easier for someone to come rescue him if he gets hurt?
Yeah a lift line is usually the last place to duck a rope. The odds of getting your pass pulled increase A LOT hitting those. Patrol usually frowns heavily on such a blatent disregard for a closing especially if you are falling all over the place.

 

[Huck_It_Baby]

Well in the case of Misery Whip on Friday, if a patroller couldn't ski those conditions and be able to perform a rescue if needed, then they shouldn't be a patroller.

I'm with you on this. Most patrollers are skiing the closed runs for fun anyway and if they can't get down themselves they aren't up to snuff. When my friend was busted by patrol this weekend they pulled his ticket because their boss made them but they were joking around and then they all skied the closed run together and had a great time. The two patrollers then branched off to go ski another closed run simply for the powder.

It comes down to making an educated decision on conditions that day and being responsible for yourself. Just the same with skiing out of bounds or glades areas.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Sounds like Hairball. Takes a ton of snow for that to fill in and even at really deep snow pack levels at Wildcat, it's really difficult to ski that trail without doing some damage; jumping rocky sections is pretty much mandatory.

Yep That was a one turn at a time survival skiing at its best (worst?). You could see the BIG rocks through the snow but the 24+ inches of unsupportive powder hid the nasty stuff well. At least the super deep snow allowed you to shed speed quickly.

 

[MadMadWorld]

Yep That was a one turn at a time survival skiing at its best (worst?). You could see the BIG rocks through the snow but the 24+ inches of unsupportive powder hid the nasty stuff well. At least the super deep snow allowed you to shed speed quickly.

Sounds like the person you were with didn't know the mountain all that well!

 

[snowmonster]

I'm a bad human being. I poach all the time. I have no moral high ground to speak from. Do I regret my actions? No. I kind of have a backcountry skiers' mentality when it comes to poaching: if something goes wrong, I'm on my own. I look at the closed trail then make a judgment if it's skiable or worth skiing at all. If there's a rope across it and the trail looks fat, I'm ducking it. Why do I do it? Maybe because being bad feels so good. It's a risk-reward calculation that we make every day. That being said, I usually do my ducking at places that I am familiar with. No way am I ducking into anything when it's my first time there or at any place out west where those ropes usually mean avalanche danger.

One time there was a rope across Black Hole at Sunday River. It had been dumping for two days and it was fat. There's a lift line that goes across it. Just when I start down the trail, a patroller was riding the lift. We look at each other and he's grinning at me giving me the thumbs-up. Only time I got close to getting caught was at MRG (of all places). Place was an ice cube and Canyons was closed. Without wanting to duck into Canyons (I was still a novice at skiing then), I went into some woods but it spit me out on Canyons. As I make my way down, there's a patroller right there. He threatens to pull my pass but I use the Jedi mind trick. These are not the skiers you are looking for.

 

[timm]

+ 1. I recall that if it was closed at Sugarbush you did not want to be there. They definitely pushed the limits and we appreciated it. I'd walk a little bit if needed to enjoy some good snow, especially in the spring.

Seconded. Was up at SB all weekend and some of the stuff they had open I couldn't believe -- Black Diamond was just ice and rock for the first half. I saw a few ropes that looked like they were hiding nice deep fluff but given that even on many of the open trails you could often see a fair amount of solid ice and dirt, I wasn't going to test it.

Other mountains are more conservative and ducking might be more appropriate. If I had money invested in a pass, I would not mess around though -- not worth the risk. On a one day ticket...probably would if it looks right.

 

[Huck_It_Baby]

No way am I ducking into anything when it's my first time there or at any place out west where those ropes usually mean avalanche danger.

Western mountains are a totally different ball game and ducking ropes shouldn't be taken as lightly as we do New England.

This a great thread. I wonder how far a resort could take things legally against a poacher if they wanted??

 

[marcski]

I was skiing yesterday at Catamount when I poached...and failed. Here's a video of it

Guess what thread I was thinking about?

Why poach a liftline with folks overhead watching? I'd prefer to be more elusive.

+1 to TB.

And...why was this a fail? It didn't seem like you really fell hard at all. Did you gauge your skis badly?

As my friend John said over the weekend...it's rude to duck ropes, just ski around them!

 

[WWF-VT]

I was skiing yesterday at Catamount when I poached...and failed. Here's a video of it

Guess what thread I was thinking about?

Were you thinking about the " Do I need a lesson to learn to ski 5" of powder? " or the "Does skiing with a Go Pro make me look like a dork" thread?