Extreme Snowboard Carving Serious Safety and Skiing Community issue

[drjeff]

Wonder how many people know how fast ...fast...fast really is.
60mph= 88 ft per second
30= 44
15= 22
Ide say 15 to 20 might be an avg speed.
Then just figure out how fast you can react and stop..or at least avoid.
That's my distance from other I try to keep.
Whe I see a pack of children all over the slope..I just stop and wait a bit

Truth!

And I wonder how many people, who say, because their slope tracker app said they hit 60+mph, really did so? I am guessing way less than actually did, as hitting 60+, even for a world cup racer, in a race suit, on a well prepared trail, on properly tuned skis designed to actually handle that kind of speed, isn't always a given. The aerodynamics factor becomes a BIG challenge after a while. Let alone the saftey factor if someone is just straigtlining down a trail with members of the general public on it

 

[AdironRider]

Nevermind that a couple dozen day a year at best skier's legs (and lets be real here, probably overweight because the vast majority of Americans are), could simply not handle any compression going 60+.

Old guy skier here is clearly in the wrong, and is clearly a low intermediate. If he wasn't he'd know that ski racers are way worse offenders of said dangerous carves than any snowboarder just from experience.

Ski in control and have a proper following distance. The code inherently implies that people aren't going to cater to your preferred line exclusively and you need to be able to react and accommodate. If you can't handle that, stay on terrain where you can until you improve.

 

[bumpybrandy]

,

Nevermind that a couple dozen day a year at best skier's legs (and lets be real here, probably overweight because the vast majority of Americans are), could simply not handle any compression going 60+.

Old guy skier here is clearly in the wrong, and is clearly a low intermediate. If he wasn't he'd know that ski racers are way worse offenders of said dangerous carves than any snowboarder just from experience.

Ski in control and have a proper following distance. The code inherently implies that people aren't going to cater to your preferred line exclusively and you need to be able to react and accommodate. If you can't handle that, stay on terrain where you can until you improve

 

[bumpybrandy]

Hey. In response to "old guy" I shall refer to you as bigmouth. If you read the thread you would know that the subject is euro-carving and how traveling 20-30 feet directly perpendicular across a ski slope without looking back on a buzy weekend creates a situation that may require an amendment to the FIS skiers responsibility code.
Furthermore, it's a shame that it always comes down to an insecurity driven "measuring" contests but just to indulge old people like me, who are among the huge number expert skiers, despite never even presuming to dream about approaching the level of genuine athletes, let alone ski gods, haven't used a term like "low intermediate" or referred to a run by the shape or color on its designation in decades. At 49 I cleared the goat path, not used, cleared at Corbett's. I hit the Big at Big Sky and realized that it was only the third hardest run I had enjoyed that day. I was bumping OL and Julio and Expert Chutes and Alta Chutes back before your cute skis did the turning for you with a big ass daylight gap between your feet, and although nothing could be less the measure of a skiers skill than the top speed they traveled by bombing down a run, the highest speed I ever happened to notice on Ski Tracks was 56 mph on an empty runout to get to gondola without walking, and that was on a pair of Solomon 1080 Moguls which are basically short toothpicks. I have no doubt that when I was young and dumb I went far faster because I fully remember that sensation of watching the world in front of me shake faster than my eyeballs could. So please, don't embarrass yourself.

 

[deadheadskier]

Paragraphs please. Haha

 

[AdironRider]

My advice to you is to focus on the good and not the bad. Skiing should be fun and you are responsible for ensuring that happens, not anyone else.

 

[skiur]

Hey. In response to "old guy" I shall refer to you as bigmouth. If you read the thread you would know that the subject is euro-carving and how traveling 20-30 feet directly perpendicular across a ski slope without looking back on a buzy weekend creates a situation that may require an amendment to the FIS skiers responsibility code.
Furthermore, it's a shame that it always comes down to an insecurity driven "measuring" contests but just to indulge old people like me, who are among the huge number expert skiers, despite never even presuming to dream about approaching the level of genuine athletes, let alone ski gods, haven't used a term like "low intermediate" or referred to a run by the shape or color on its designation in decades. At 49 I cleared the goat path, not used, cleared at Corbett's. I hit the Big at Big Sky and realized that it was only the third hardest run I had enjoyed that day. I was bumping OL and Julio and Expert Chutes and Alta Chutes back before your cute skis did the turning for you with a big ass daylight gap between your feet, and although nothing could be less the measure of a skiers skill than the top speed they traveled by bombing down a run, the highest speed I ever happened to notice on Ski Tracks was 56 mph on an empty runout to get to gondola without walking, and that was on a pair of Solomon 1080 Moguls which are basically short toothpicks. I have no doubt that when I was young and dumb I went far faster because I fully remember that sensation of watching the world in front of me shake faster than my eyeballs could. So please, don't embarrass yourself.

You seem awfully hung up on snowboarders. Skiers do stupid $hit too.

 

[skithetrees]

Code says you are in the wrong and it is hard to argue that. I also have nothing against someone ripping big turns down a trail. That said, common sense should dictate. You shouldn’t do that on a crowded trail. Likewise, if you are going straight and suddenly decide to start carving back and forth across the whole trail, look over your shoulder. Common sense and self preservation should dictate. Unfortunately, for at least half the people that ski they don’t—you should plan accordingly. You might be right, but if the bus runs you over it’s kind of moot.

 

[bumpybrandy]

Code says you are in the wrong and it is hard to argue that. I also have nothing against someone ripping big turns down a trail. That said, common sense should dictate. You shouldn’t do that on a crowded trail. Likewise, if you are going straight and suddenly decide to start carving back and forth across the whole trail, look over your shoulder. Common sense and self preservation should dictate. Unfortunately, for at least half the people that ski they don’t—you should plan accordingly. You might be right, but if the bus runs you over it’s kind of moot.

many good replies. I agree skiing should be all about fun, and whether you're decent, good, great or awful has absolutely no impact on life as long as you not only can have fun like i have fun sucking at golf, but also can allow yourself to feel a sense of accomplishment by each incremental improvement at any activity or endeavor you are engaged in. I also agree that I seem hung up on snowboarders. I should chill out with that. Noted. Finally, while I agree wholeheartedly with the pragmatic approach suggested by skithetrees, I guess the reason I got hung up on this is because when I first mentioned it thinking it might help raise awareness on the part of snowboarders so they would at least check first before changing from a straight line to a kamikaze run in a single unannounced motion, I found myself repeatedly in a construct where all one has to do is read the words on a piece of paper and give absolutely no further consideration to whether a new development or circumstance might require a fresh look. It's that sort of blind compliance that bugged me. I work in an industry with many legal elements to it and I can tell you that the spirit of the law is what guides judges, not the syntax. You are literally NOT automatically responsible in a car accident solely because you were behind the other car. driving up I-95 in Miami at midnight some kids drivingl an unregistered uninsured car passing recklessly up in front of me. They lost control and spun out three times drifting into my lane and despite my best efforts to slow down and simultaneously dodge them, I ended up hitting them because I was squeezed up against a median and them. what do you think the police said, it was my fault? No they said do you even want to bother filing a police report considering youre in a rented car with full coverage and that these morons are nothing but an uninsured menace. blindly reciting rules has led to some of the greatest atrocities in the history of mankind. Socrates, Ptolemy, Rosa Parks, and on and on. my point is, use your own mind and sometimes you'll see things need a little tweak, or perhaps more. The people who wrote down "the rules" were not as prescient and noble as followers are willing to give them credit for.

 

[letitsnow1]

Wonder how many people know how fast ...fast...fast really is.
60mph= 88 ft per second
30= 44
15= 22
Ide say 15 to 20 might be an avg speed.
Then just figure out how fast you can react and stop..or at least avoid.
That's my distance from other I try to keep.
Whe I see a pack of children all over the slope..I just stop and wait a bit

I always stop and wait when there's a group of kids on the trail and lately it's becoming more common for somebody to go flying right through the middle of the kids without slowing down

 

[kingslug]

Had it happen to me today..but I was watching him...and stopped
Well..he was wearing bright orange...
Couldn't miss him.

 

[oldfartrider]

I see nothing here that says the SB was carving all the way across the trail. I see a sb tried to make a turn and a skier ran into him. Nobody is going to signal that they’re going to make a turn. Everyone makes turns. You were following too close cause you couldn’t stop.

 

[crippity]

I suck at golf and play all the time. Know the code and live by it and get over it. For some body with so many skiing accomplishments like corbets, would think you would be a bit wiser. Your useless whining is detracting from my post of where im asking the crowd to help plan something fun and actually enjoy life. Build a bridge and get over it. I was in tremblant all weekend (which was awesome btw), if you have been you would know how busy it can get, any time anyone is in front of me and i remolty dont feel comfortable i slow down and chill out. Not rocket science speedester. and snowboard saved the ski industry so bite me.

 

[SenorQuesadilla]

The snowboarder was dumb to not look uphill but the ski code is written with the understanding that people do dumb things. If they're taking such a direct line across the slope it should be easy to avoid them if you're giving them enough space.

 

[raisingarizona]

I love to bend the shit out of a ski but when it's busy I won't put a trench 75 feet across a ski run without looking uphill first. It's sort of like growing up in New Jersey or NYC, even though you have the right of way when crossing the street you learn to run and not get in the way of traffic because the "right of way" ain't going to stop a car from running your ass over. I get buzzed all the time by snowboarders hell bent on passing me that are straight lining the ski run and basically way out of control.

That being said I don't like skiing at busy ski areas any longer. I've been up at our hill maybe 8 days now and I've only had a handful of actual runs where I felt like I could let go, not be scared and actually ski the way I like to. At this point I almost have to pull over to get away from people on nearly every run I ski.
I mostly go "skiing" to get out of the house and have a couple beers. It's unfortunate but in todays world of successful ski areas I don't have any fun at them. I'm not mad about it, it just is.

Also, if these folks are riding the way you make it sound then they must be pretty good at it, I'd actually appreciate seeing that instead of the straight lining with speed wobbles 20 something year olds we mostly have here.

I like to give folks enough of a wide berth that no matter what they do I feel like I can keep my distance and stay safe from the unpredictable. If I can't do that? It's beer thirty.

 

[oldfartrider]

A few weeks ago I was at Attitash on a Sunday afternoon. A skier asked me what I thought of all the pylons. I asked him what he meant, he said it was crowded. It wasn’t even close to being crowded. Within 10 minutes that same guy passed me super close on my backside. I like to ride on the side of the trail because I find the snow softer there. These close passes happens allot. I’d like to say I’m used to this but I’m not, it’s super frightening. I don’t understand why people do this

 

[soposkier]

Settle this through a ski off. Goddamn knuckle draggers ruining it for everyone.

 

[BodeMiller1]

Settle this through a ski off. Goddamn knuckle draggers ruining it for everyone.

This is the only way. Snowboarders helped the sport, butt destroyed the intitution! We're living in a socitey.

 

[Atomic]

This thread popped into my head once or twice today at Mt. Snow as it was a bit more crowded than I'm used to midweek and required a lot more passing, etc. as well as plenty of young bombing boarders and skiers letting loose. My normal style is some sort of skier's version of that long carve (but certainly not as extreme with the uphilling) and now I'm running Line Blades that are designed for it.
Midweek skiing makes it much more doable in general but in any case I say the boarder is at least at equal fault in the bumpy brandy incident. If I'm going to slash across the entire fall line I think it is my responsibility to be looking uphill before I do, even if I've waited for a gap.
As we say in hockey - gotta have your head on a swivel.

 

[machski]

This is not limited to snowboarders. I had a race kid neck and neck with me, half the trail width apart when this kid without looking cut hard 90 to tail to try and hit a jump on trails edge he spotted. I managed to avoid him but had I not been prepared to make an aggressive move he would have swerved right into me. Zero attempt on his part to ensure no one was next to him. Head on a swivel and if you intend to pass someone on hill, do it as fast as safely possible. People do not care. I hope they don't drive like this and look first. The code puts the full burden on one skier/rider and complete absolves the other. I do not believe the code was written when these hard, deep turns by both boards and skis were really possible (old, long straight skis only around). Times have changed.