First to Open - 2007-08 Predictions

[Highway Star]

SR already has a bunch of tower guns with new low e heads on prime terrain...adding fan guns to that mix would be redundant...they pretty much accomplish the same thing...efficiency, wider range of temp and humidity uses, etc. Hopefully Boyne will spend their money on other infrastructure...the snowmaking at SR is pretty dialed already. Lodges could use some $$$.

Not quite the the case. Low-e type guns are typically good below 24 F WB and need high water pressure.....not that good in marginal temps in general - like around 28 F wet bulb. They would also like to use the tripod guns if it's cold out and they need to flow maximum water through the system (low flow losses).

To blow in marginal temps, the two main tech's are fan guns and "big air", which means tripod type guns that consume HUGE amounts of compressed air - 500 SCFM or about 150-200 hp per gun in those temps. That's why Killington can open large amounts of terrain in marginal temps. They have to rent a bunch of MASSIVE industrial air compressors for the season, and the energy costs are insane. Fan guns cost more to install, but they only use 25-35 hp of electricity, even in marginal temps....alot less risky and expensive to open early now days if you have those.

 

[MarkC]

I would bet the farm that it is A basin or Loveland. However in the east my vote has to go to Belleayre. Their budget works differently than most non state owned and a few state owned places. The money is there for the spending and Tony Lanza would love the bragging rights.

 

[drjeff]

I would guess peaks shows off their new snowmaking technology by opening mount snow on november 9. Followed shortly after by sunday river.

In the coming years as boyne installs more fan guns I would think sunday river and sugarloaf would have the advantage.

Believe me, as someone who owns a townhome at Mount Snow, I'd love for them to be 1st to open/last to close. But in the first to open race, I think that their latitude will put them at a slight disadvantage over places like SL/SR/SB/BW and it even wouldn't suprise me if POWDR attempts to save face a bit and gain some POSITIVE PR for a change and go for it with a return to either some trucking to Canyon quad or across from Snowdon triple to North Ridge Triple.

I'll give Mount Snow a top 5 for opening this year, and maybe a bit earlier in the coming years as Peak resorts starts installing fan guns on The North Face. Remember essentially all of the fan guns that their putting in this year are on the lower 1,000 verts of the Main face/Carinthia. What I would expect from Mount Snow is for them to get down to the base proportionately earlier this year and with extra added routes sooner as they look to show off what those 100 odd fan guns can do

 

[andyzee]

I think I am going to go with Sugarbush.

I'll second that.

 

[Newpylong]

I really wish someone thought to ask Chris L in the Mount Snow challenge if there was any plan to increase snowmaking in other areas (i.e. early season) with the old equipment that was replaced by the fan guns.

Greg, supposedly Mount Snow has been installing the tower guns that were removed from the Fan Gun trails and putting them on runs like Sweet 16. I am sure the rest will be put to good use in upcoming off-seasons.

My vote - Sugarloaf hands down. As to who is second, Sunday River? Sugarbush? Mount Snow? Count the Big K out with those ding dongs running the show.

 

[Zand]

I'll jump on the Sugarloaf, Sunday River, and Mount Snow train. Okemo and Sugarbush won't be far behind and Killington should have a decent opening day (hopefully earlier than last year).

 

[mamaspice]

I really wish someone thought to ask Chris L in the Mount Snow challenge if there was any plan to increase snowmaking in other areas (i.e. early season) with the old equipment that was replaced by the fan guns.

Here's the answer to Greg's question: For the 07-08 season, we are not increasing the amount of trails that offer snowmaking; although we have replaced some snowmaking pipe this summer, it is on the existing snowmaking trails. For the early season, we will be using a combination of fan and low E guns to get open as soon as possible. If mother nature cooperates we plan to open Snowdance earlier (side to side coverage - yeeha!) and Carinthia (possibly a park.)

Mount Snow has an extensive snowmaking equipment fleet already in place - the new fan guns will complement this equipment and allow us to spread it further and deeper on wide open trails and save on energy costs at the same time.

As you know, we're trying to get approvals to withdraw water for snowmaking from Somerset Reservoir. It's a long process, and if approved, it will impact 08/09, not this season. Snowmaking expansion will definitely take place if we can use water from Somerset.

MS

 

[ERJ-145CA]

I would bet the farm that it is A basin or Loveland. However in the east my vote has to go to Belleayre. Their budget works differently than most non state owned and a few state owned places. The money is there for the spending and Tony Lanza would love the bragging rights.

The mailing that I got from Belleayre says the season will be 11/10-4/20, weather permitting. I hope it works out that way.

 

[drjeff]

Here's the answer to Greg's question: For the 07-08 season, we are not increasing the amount of trails that offer snowmaking; although we have replaced some snowmaking pipe this summer, it is on the existing snowmaking trails. For the early season, we will be using a combination of fan and low E guns to get open as soon as possible. If mother nature cooperates we plan to open Snowdance earlier (side to side coverage - yeeha!) and Carinthia (possibly a park.)

Mount Snow has an extensive snowmaking equipment fleet already in place - the new fan guns will complement this equipment and allow us to spread it further and deeper on wide open trails and save on energy costs at the same time.

As you know, we're trying to get approvals to withdraw water for snowmaking from Somerset Reservoir. It's a long process, and if approved, it will impact 08/09, not this season. Snowmaking expansion will definitely take place if we can use water from Somerset.

MS

Thanks Meri! Now if we could just do something about your avatar photo! :uzi:

 

[nycskier]

Wow! We must all have a really low opinion of Powdr. In the past Killington would have been the no brainer answer! But this year with the new ownership who knows.

I would like to put a vote in for Belleayre as well. I am always amazed how early they open! They get 2 inches of snow in late october and they are ready to run the lifts.

 

[DJAK]

Last year we saw a flurry of resorts all open within hours or a day of each other, which pushes me towards the one within that 24 hour span that offers the best/most terrain. No one has yet to mention Cataloochee, who barely beat out SL and SR last season. The Maine resorts won the VT/NH/ME race with top to bottomness, but was scooped by Cataloochee by a day. Props to them for making it happen in that climate. The vert was minimal, but a major accomplishment for them regardless.

 

[snowman]

BW took was not as agressive last year. snowseek told me they got an earful at the pass holder bbq. I think the people who work there are great.

I see it being between Mt snow and Sunday River. both want to show what they can do. I'm going with my heart I picked the river.

Agreed. I see it as being an arms race of fan vs. mixed nozzle between those 2. Sugarloaf has way too much terrain to cover to get open first. They need atleast 3 really cold days in a row just to get from the top to the bottom of the superquad, and I can't see them bothering with anything else first. 3 really cold days are also hard to come by early season of late. Then there's the fact there's no point competing with yourself. SR has more compressor power and a better early season terrain set up, even if they do not have the lower temps the loaf does. They may open a couple weeks before the loaf.

 

[kcyanks1]

Sugarbush, Saturday, November 10th.

 

[Rob A]

Belleayre Nov 10

 

[Highway Star]

For the early season, we will be using a combination of fan and low E guns to get open as soon as possible. If mother nature cooperates we plan to open Snowdance earlier (side to side coverage - yeeha!) and Carinthia (possibly a park.)

Interesting strategy......

PEOPLE......PLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE, PAGE 2:

http://www.snowmakers.com/resources/SnowNews2002.pdf

Very clear and understandable reasons why certain tech works better for certain reasons in marginal temps. It's either "big-air" or fan guns. "Big-Air" is what Killington really likes to use, but it is absurdly expensive in marginal temps - but if you can put thousands of people on the hill because you have the most terrain open, it's worth it. For example, to break it out - for Killington to run 200 of their tripod guns (k2000 or k3000) at 28F wet bulb, they can put out about 1.5+ acre feet of snow an hour, depending on how wet and dense it is. However, to run those guns in those temps, it's going to take around 110+ kW of electricity for compressed air and pumping.....PER GUN. That starts adding up really quick.....at $.10/kWh, you're looking at $2200+ an hour for 200 guns, or roughly $1,500 per acre foot.......and I'm quite sure it could be even more than that with system inefficiencies, probably closer to $2,000, or more even. Plus labor, buying the water from woodward, etc. To do an opening like they did last thanksgiving, they blew about 100+ acre feet of snow to cover the path down from the K-1, plus other trails, within a week......figure, rough guess, they probably spent $350,000-$500,000+ on snowmaking before they even opened last year, Thanksgiving day. They made snow in early november up top, but it all melted. Pimpin' ain't easy.

I like Mt. Snow's strategy.....they are going to open on "inexpensive snow".....ie. use the fan guns cheaply at marginal temps, combined with low-e tower guns up top in colder temps....that means they can make the snow more cheaply, and without having to be sooo concerned about it getting melted or rained on before they get enough people out on it to ski it......this should allow them to be more agressive on trying to get open.

 

[Mikey1]

My vote is for Sugarloaf or Sunday River as the new ownership tries to make a splash.

 

[loafer89]

Sugarloaf could easily open in late October with skiing on Spillway just like they did in the past. Hopefully the new owners will upgrade the snowmaking plant with an increased air supply to augment the system already in place.

I never skied Sugarloaf in October or November, so I would be interested in taking the trip up if they do open early enough.

 

[snoseek]

My vote is for Sugarloaf or Sunday River as the new ownership tries to make a splash.

i agree, only it will probably be at sunday river. sugarloaf is just too far for most folks to drive for 1 trail (not me). could also be mount snow or even bretton woods( bw probably has the coldest early season temps besides sugarloaf). it's really who wants to make a statement, and while many may dismiss this as a total waste of $$, the actions would speak very loudly. my vote for sunday river.

 

[Greg]

So my guess is Sugarloaf/USA on Thursday, November 1, followed soon after by Mount Snow and Sunday River that Friday.

Gonna be a tough call. It's Peak vs. Boyne this season as far as I'm concerned though.

 

[dmc]

The mailing that I got from Belleayre says the season will be 11/10-4/20, weather permitting. I hope it works out that way.

They say that every year.. Don't get your hopes up...