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http://forums.alpinezone.com/38079-skiing-mount-snow-vermont-friday-11-14-a.html
Aiming for 11/14. Oh, and I have you beat. I skied Snow with the AZ crew on the 12th last year! :razz:
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Heel Lifts
- Thread starter Greg
- Start date
http://forums.alpinezone.com/38079-skiing-mount-snow-vermont-friday-11-14-a.html
Aiming for 11/14. Oh, and I have you beat. I skied Snow with the AZ crew on the 12th last year! :razz:
Last edited:
lloyd braun
New member
really? cause it seemed people were talking about using the heal lift to improve other aspects.
I can agree to this comment in only a small way. You can compensate and overcome a bad stance with good technique and form.
lloyd braun
New member
Why would you try something that you don't need or won't help you. If you are here asking the question about heel lifts you must not be versed in what a heel lift does or was designed for.
Use the lift if you have flex issues, get a custom footbed to give you a proper stance. Like I said before there are no short cuts...............
Would a PGA pro not score well with a out dated set of clubs?
Would a Tennis Pro be able to beat you with a wood racket?
Would Bode kick your ass with skinny skis?
My point is the equipment doesn't make you better, so don't look to it for answers!
I'm looking for my Jack Kramer Autograph....................
eastcoastpowderhound
New member
While I think heel lifts are over perscribed, it doesn't mean they aren't helpful in dialing in fore-aft balance for some people...Greg could be one of them,but won't know unless he plays around with it himself or spends some time with a competent bootfitter.
Footbeds, as critical as they are, don't have a significant impact on fore-aft balance.
Would Tiger get his ass kicked by other PGA pros using a set of 1980s clubs...you betcha.
Would Venus and Serena have won the Olympic doubles using Billy Jean King's old rackets...hell no.
Would Bode see a podium on the world cup this year on Phil and Steve's old K2s...not a chance.
Equipment absolutely has an impact on your performance...if you don't think so I've got some 1994 Volkl P10 SLCs in a 205cm that I'll send you to use this winter and you can sacrifice your Gotamas/Mantras and the rest of your quiver to Ullr. Like you said, it won't have any impact on your skiing right?:blink:
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Thank you. This is my point. I was fitted by Jeff Bokum. He in fact recommended playing with the heel lifts if I wanted to. I also have custom orthotics built by him. Stabilizing the heel via a foot bed is the foundation for all other adjustments, fore/aft balancing, canting, etc.
As someone looking to improve in the bumps, it's better to be in a more aggressive and forward position, than in a standard all-mountain centered position. I know there's a whole concept about how too much ramp angle can put you in the backseat, etc., but throwing in some heel lifts that amount to probably less than a quarter inch isn't going to hurt too much, I don't think. Like I said, if I don't like them, or certainly if I feel they are inhibiting me, it takes 2 minutes to pull them out.
I know equipment doesn't make the skier, but in some cases the right tool for the job or tweaking your setup can help. Our buddy lloyd made a lot of assumptions about what I'm trying to accomplish here and where I'm starting from.
bigbog
Active member
....
The lift is limited, but it does make a wider range of flex possible for my dorsiflexion issue...but by itself, does add a little too much forward lean..putting my upperbody a little too forward when not aggressively flexing. Probably could solve that with 1.5->2deg shim under toe/binding. Combining the wide forefoot/calf, pronation, shorter tibia(me =5'8") issues leaves me with a somewhat smaller envelope, in between tumbling forward or falling backwards into backseat, where everything feels/works great.
ecph,
The lift is limited, but it does make a wider range of flex possible for my dorsiflexion issue...but by itself, does add a little too much forward lean..putting my upperbody a little too forward when not aggressively flexing. Probably could solve that with 1.5->2deg shim under toe/binding. Combining the wide forefoot/calf, pronation, shorter tibia(me =5'8") issues leaves me with a somewhat smaller envelope, in between tumbling forward or falling backwards into backseat, where everything feels/works great.
You are talking about external toe lift and that can be done by adding a plate to the bottom of the boot sole too with lots of boots. Most racers have their boots lifted using these boot sole plates. If it's the binding that's at fault (some older look/rossi axial style bindings) shims were available as well.
eastcoastpowderhound
New member
it (heel lift) doesn't add forward lean, it adds ramp angle...but many times when someone is being balanced in their boots there is no consideration to the ramp angle that the binding is already adding...so if you've been dialed in fore aft in ONLY the boot and through that process, increased your ramp angle (heel lift), then you're adding additional ramp angle when you step into your bindings...and if you have more than one ski, may have diff overall ramp angles from one set to another. Adding a heel lift to the boot increases the ramp angle while adding a toe lift to the boot sole or toe piece of the binding decreases the ramp angle (okay, delta angle, but also effective overall ramp angle). Crazy as it sounds, in some cases (mostly racers) people are adding a toe lift to bring their hips FORWARD...the theory being that raising the toe will force the skier to move their hips forward to stay out of the back seat...but that requires you to bend more at the ankle.
Another method for dealing with limited dorsiflexion is a stiffer boot and also making sure that you've removed anything that takes away from your range of motion in your ankle...ie the forward lean adjustment (stand it up) calf spoiler (remove it) and pad the tongue of your boot so as soon as you bend your knee that energy is going right into the boot, your forefoot and to the ski...with your limited range of motion you can't waste it with slop up top. Watever you do, make sure it includes the ski and binding in the calculation otherwise it'll all change when you click in.
ed-drum
New member
Heel lifts never changed my stance. They put my foot tighter in the boot to reduce heel lifting in the boot.
Hawkshot99
Active member
Same for me.
You may have heel lifting because you have limited dorsal flexion.
In this case you want 2 cold micro brews and an assistant. Stand bare foot on a hard floor surface feet skier's width apart. place an 8.5*11 sheet of paper under you heels. Have your assistant tug back on the paper it should be firmly held by your heels. Start pushing your knees forward at what point does the paper slide out? Have a drink and do again. The further forward you can push your knees before the paper is released the greater your range of motion and the more dorsal flexion your ankles have.
If you have heel lift it's often because you don't have enough range of motion for the angles created by Boot Ramp Angle + forward lean combined with your need to flex forward.
ed-drum
New member
I didn't say I have a heel lift problem. I should have said that it will reduce heel lift with people that have the problem. I like the suggestion though. Especially that micro brew part! My new Full Tilt boots are quite incredible with the way they fit, how warm they are and the fact that there is no shin bang problem. They feel as though I control the boot, not the boot controlling me. Blaming your equipment on technique is like blaming a musical instrument on your technique. I know skiers that blow me away and their equipment is beat to death.
eastcoastpowderhound
New member
you'd be better off padding the area around your achillies or, if you've got a lot of slop in the heel, c-pads...both will create a better heel pocket and increased heel hold...padding the "throat" (lower area of the tongue in front of the ankle) also helps hold the heel down and in the pocket.
The heel lift did change your fore/aft...can't help but have an impact...like a tree falling in the woods, just because no one heard it doesn't mean it didn't make a sound. this is one of the reasons why a few of us have said heel lifts are over used...you can address fit issues by other means and not have the impact on fore/aft balance. I guess my point is a heel lift is often times a lazy bootfitters cure-all...boot tight in the toes - heel lift, slop in the heel - heel lift, not enough width at the ball of the foot - heel lift, you're a woman - big blue heel lift...in many cases it helps the symptoms but not the real problem and can have unintended consequences.
o3jeff
New member
Greg, are you gonna put these in the new boots or is the stance good without them?
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No silly. :lol: I'm going to roll with the Kryptons based on how skidmarks set me up.
Did you try them yet?
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I guess I could wait for a heavy frost and give them a go, but I think I'll wait until the ski areas open...
I guess I could wait for a heavy frost and give them a go, but I think I'll wait until the ski areas open...
What no carpeted stairs in your house?
