Hunter Snowmaking?

[SIKSKIER]

Cannon used to have a deal with PSNH to reduce usage when it was real cold.Our sarcastic quip was "10 below..we don't make snow".

 

[Riverskier]

A larger % of pass holders vs single ticket buyers. They already booked the season pass $$$.

A lot of people forget in these early/late season discussions that seasons pass holders are customers too, and make a decision where to buy their pass each year based on percieved value. If Boyne switched to a Hunter length season, I would probably buy a pass at Saddleback or Mt Abram instead of my Boyne pass. As long as a they give me a 6 month season, I am locked in even if they significantly increased the cost of my pass. Some people are tied to a mountain by being a local or property owner, but there are plenty others out there like myself. Are early/late season efforts profitable overall? I don't have the answer, and it would vary based on a case by case basis, but Boyne and killington seem to think so. It seems like a lot of people just look to day ticket sales to determine success or failure (not saying you x10003q, not sure where you stand), but that is very shortsighted, as I only addressed on of the many reasons and extended season MAY be profitable even without many day ticket sales.

 

[RichT]

[h=1]SNOW REPORT[/h]

CURRENT BASE TEMP: 41° CURRENT WEATHER: chance rain showers So here it is!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello skiers and riders,​

We will be opening for the 2013-2014 season on Friday, November 29th! Snowmaking has been taking place on and off for the past few days, but with a warm-up anticipated, we've decided to wait until after Thanksgiving to bring you the great conditions you've come to expect from us. We'll see you soon!
Enjoy your day!

 

[andrec10]

Still lame! Should have been this Sunday! It's not the same old Hunter, that's for sure.



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[x10003q]

A lot of people forget in these early/late season discussions that seasons pass holders are customers too, and make a decision where to buy their pass each year based on percieved value. If Boyne switched to a Hunter length season, I would probably buy a pass at Saddleback or Mt Abram instead of my Boyne pass. As long as a they give me a 6 month season, I am locked in even if they significantly increased the cost of my pass. Some people are tied to a mountain by being a local or property owner, but there are plenty others out there like myself. Are early/late season efforts profitable overall? I don't have the answer, and it would vary based on a case by case basis, but Boyne and killington seem to think so. It seems like a lot of people just look to day ticket sales to determine success or failure (not saying you x10003q, not sure where you stand), but that is very shortsighted, as I only addressed on of the many reasons and extended season MAY be profitable even without many day ticket sales.

I was just pointing out another important part of the snowmaking equation. It seems that in recent years Hunter has started snowmaking right around Thanksgiving - plus or minus a week depending on the temps/weather.

Windham and Plattekill have not yet turned the guns on and Belleayre has a picture of its guns running.

 

[RichT]

I was just pointing out another important part of the snowmaking equation. It seems that in recent years Hunter has started snowmaking right around Thanksgiving - plus or minus a week depending on the temps/weather.

Windham and Plattekill have not yet turned the guns on and Belleayre has a picture of its guns running.

Belleayre's pic is from last week............they don't want to show you what's there now.

 

[JimG.]

I'll take the 29th if they open...can't make it T-day anyway.

 

[4aprice]

Still lame! Should have been this Sunday! It's not the same old Hunter, that's for sure.



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I was one of those people who used to go to Hunter when it would open early and close late. I remember skiing before Thanksgiving there several times. If I was skiing this weekend (Waiting for next weekend) out of here (NNJ) I guess I would be heading to Jiminy. They seem to have taken that torch and run with it.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[JimG.]

If I was skiing this weekend (Waiting for next weekend) out of here (NNJ) I guess I would be heading to Jiminy. They seem to have taken that torch and run with it.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

Looks like I'll be there on Saturday...went once early last season and it was OK.

 

[dmc]

I'll be there Saturday...

 

[goldsbar]

Hunter is still the best at snowmaking in the Catskills region by far. Belleayre - they usually open with half a hill that's the equivalent of 1/6 at best of Hunter's top-to-bottom. Takes them forever to get the whole mountain going. Plattekill - love the place, but please... Windham - least knowledgeable on them but they don't seem close to Hunter from what I read.

Problem is it seems like Hunter hasn't advanced at all. They've had the lead for the 30 years I've known them but the capacity seems the same. Might not be true, but that's the impression I get.

 

[andrec10]

Hunter is still the best at snowmaking in the Catskills region by far. Belleayre - they usually open with half a hill that's the equivalent of 1/6 at best of Hunter's top-to-bottom. Takes them forever to get the whole mountain going. Plattekill - love the place, but please... Windham - least knowledgeable on them but they don't seem close to Hunter from what I read.

Problem is it seems like Hunter hasn't advanced at all. They've had the lead for the 30 years I've known them but the capacity seems the same. Might not be true, but that's the impression I get.[/QUOTE

Their capacity has actually has actually went down. They used to rent 5 extra compressors, then 3, then 1 now none. That's a lot of lost capacity!

 

[drjeff]

Hunter is still the best at snowmaking in the Catskills region by far. Belleayre - they usually open with half a hill that's the equivalent of 1/6 at best of Hunter's top-to-bottom. Takes them forever to get the whole mountain going. Plattekill - love the place, but please... Windham - least knowledgeable on them but they don't seem close to Hunter from what I read.

Problem is it seems like Hunter hasn't advanced at all. They've had the lead for the 30 years I've known them but the capacity seems the same. Might not be true, but that's the impression I get.[/QUOTE

Their capacity has actually has actually went down. They used to rent 5 extra compressors, then 3, then 1 now none. That's a lot of lost capacity!

You can't really relate a decrease in compressors to a decrease in capacity in many case now with modern snowmaking technology. I'm sure from the pictures I've seen that Hunter has added many fan guns to their impressive arsenal over the years. Since they've got on board compressors, you don't need any external rental air source for those. Most modern low e air water towers can also operate 2 to 4+ guns for the same amount of external air as a single "old" air/water gun used, so you can run as many guns with far less air than in the past. Frankly in many cases and temperatures nowadays the biggest limiting factor in a snowmaking system ISN'T how much air they have, but how much water they can pump up the hill.

I know personally from what I've seen at my home hill of Mount Snow the last 5yrs since Peak Resorts bought them and installed 253 fan guns that they're now making more acre-feet of snow than ever, in less hours per season and they no longer rent ANY of the roughly 10 external compressors they used to, and via low e tower conversions on many of their air/water trails they're still running almost as many air/water guns as they used to with the older technology guns and all the rental compressors

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[JimG.]

nowadays the biggest limiting factor in a snowmaking system ISN'T how much air they have, but how much water they can pump up the hill.

Which is why Hunter refurbished one pump house and installed a new one several years ago. They are perfectly capable of pumping out massive amounts of snow. The cost conscious management style (which is not necessarily wrong from a dollars and cents perspective) is what is holding them back.

 

[180]

They have several trails now that have one point to turn on all the guns. Milky Way, Cliff to name a few.

 

[HowieT2]

You can't really relate a decrease in compressors to a decrease in capacity in many case now with modern snowmaking technology. I'm sure from the pictures I've seen that Hunter has added many fan guns to their impressive arsenal over the years. Since they've got on board compressors, you don't need any external rental air source for those. Most modern low e air water towers can also operate 2 to 4+ guns for the same amount of external air as a single "old" air/water gun used, so you can run as many guns with far less air than in the past. Frankly in many cases and temperatures nowadays the biggest limiting factor in a snowmaking system ISN'T how much air they have, but how much water they can pump up the hill.

I know personally from what I've seen at my home hill of Mount Snow the last 5yrs since Peak Resorts bought them and installed 253 fan guns that they're now making more acre-feet of snow than ever, in less hours per season and they no longer rent ANY of the roughly 10 external compressors they used to, and via low e tower conversions on many of their air/water trails they're still running almost as many air/water guns as they used to with the older technology guns and all the rental compressors

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this. Well said.

 

[Riverskier]

You can't really relate a decrease in compressors to a decrease in capacity in many case now with modern snowmaking technology. I'm sure from the pictures I've seen that Hunter has added many fan guns to their impressive arsenal over the years. Since they've got on board compressors, you don't need any external rental air source for those. Most modern low e air water towers can also operate 2 to 4+ guns for the same amount of external air as a single "old" air/water gun used, so you can run as many guns with far less air than in the past. Frankly in many cases and temperatures nowadays the biggest limiting factor in a snowmaking system ISN'T how much air they have, but how much water they can pump up the hill.

I know personally from what I've seen at my home hill of Mount Snow the last 5yrs since Peak Resorts bought them and installed 253 fan guns that they're now making more acre-feet of snow than ever, in less hours per season and they no longer rent ANY of the roughly 10 external compressors they used to, and via low e tower conversions on many of their air/water trails they're still running almost as many air/water guns as they used to with the older technology guns and all the rental compressors

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Well put. Sunday River has been steadily increasing the amount of snow they can make at a time, without adding new compressors, by installing fan guns and low E tower guns. They have plans to DOUBLE their water their water pumping capability within the next few years, but no mention of adding compressors, as with the new technology guns they are more limited by the amount of water they can pump than air. They are also blessed with having virtually unlimited water. They can alreay run up to over 300 guns at a time, and clearly have one of, if the most, powerful systems in the East. This planned upgrade in water pumping capability would be a game chnager, and could potentially put them leaps and bounds ahead of the competition.

 

[millerm277]

Hunter is still the best at snowmaking in the Catskills region by far. Belleayre - they usually open with half a hill that's the equivalent of 1/6 at best of Hunter's top-to-bottom. Takes them forever to get the whole mountain going. Plattekill - love the place, but please... Windham - least knowledgeable on them but they don't seem close to Hunter from what I read.

Problem is it seems like Hunter hasn't advanced at all. They've had the lead for the 30 years I've known them but the capacity seems the same. Might not be true, but that's the impression I get.

Their capacity has actually has actually went down. They used to rent 5 extra compressors, then 3, then 1 now none. That's a lot of lost capacity!

Low-e guns have made air capacity much less important overall. Secondly, you'll notice Hunter's new fan guns have on-board compressors (while the old Highlands do not), and they've been putting in a lot of new guns all over the mountain, both fans and towers, which are much more efficient.

The primary point here being simple: I suspect they can easily max out their water capacity without running out of air in normal snowmaking weather. There's no reason to have those compressors, they're just wasted money on something you don't need.

 

[dmc]

So many rumors... So much conjecture...

And the mountain just lets these rumors go on and on... broken pipes... global warming... management changes...wet bulb.. Rented compressors or lack there of... I could go on and on...

All rumors... All going unchecked... running rampant thought the town and onto the internet...

 

[dmc]

45 degrees and light rain here in Hunter at 8am