Hunter's Mt Status and Snow reports

[abc]

So essentially you agreed to allow Vail to make whatever changes they want to the reservation system and can't get a refund if you don't like them...

Any contract that's "unfair" is not enforceable.

So wording such as "sole and absolute discretion" rarely hold up in court. (the amount is small enough to "fit" into Small Claim court. Vail, I'm sure, will send one of their high price lawyer to contest the challenge! )

 

[abc]

I've had 6 consecutive days of glorious cross country skiing out of this last storm! No reservation, no crowd, $10 or free

Why did I even bother with Vail's clusterf*ck???

 

[cdskier]

Any contract that's "unfair" is not enforceable.

So wording such as "sole and absolute discretion" rarely hold up in court. (the amount is small enough to "fit" into Small Claim court. Vail, I'm sure, will send one of their high price lawyer to contest the challenge! )

Here's a similar clause from their terms of sale that doesn't use the wording you have issues with...

Reservation Policy. Vail Resorts’ reservation policy for the 2020/2021 season is available at epicpass.com. You acknowledge and agree to be bound by this reservation policy and any future changes to that policy.

Restricting reservation privileges for abuse was listed as part of the reservation policy from day 1 of the reservation policy being announced. Just because you think you should be able to cancel as many days as you want without it being considered abuse doesn't make that reality.

Now that we've had a sneak preview of what they're targeting, I think it sounds pretty fair. Someone who has cancelled or missed 2 reservations a week for 3 consecutive weeks means they have cancelled a minimum of nearly 30% of their reservations 3 weeks in a row (that's assuming they made the maximum of 7 reservations a week...if they made less reservations, then their cancellation/miss percentage is even higher at 33% for 6 reservations a week, 40% for 5 reservations a week, 50% for 4, 67% for 3, or 100% for 2). Seems completely reasonable to target that repetitive behavior.

 

[abc]

Check your calculation again!

There’re 20 plus weeks in a season!

Let’s say they miss 2 out of 6 days, 3 weeks out of 6. That’s 16%.

3 weeks out of 12, that’s 8%. That’s abuse?

 

[cdskier]

Check your calculation again!

There’re 20 plus weeks in a season!

Let’s say they miss 2 out of 6 days, 3 weeks out of 6. That’s 16%.

3 weeks out of 12, that’s 8%. That’s abuse?

No, there's nothing wrong with my math. They're specifically looking at what you are doing in a 3 week period. They're not waiting the full 20+ weeks to calculate this (obviously it would be too late for them to take action by that point). The math is valid for that 3 week period. A consistent 30%+ cancellation rate sustained over 3 weeks is excessive and unfair to people that actually DO want to ski.

 

[abc]

They're specifically looking at what you are doing in a 3 week period.

What "3 week period"?

I don't see any mentioning of that in the Vail's policy.

 

[cdskier]

What "3 week period"?

I don't see any mentioning of that in the Vail's policy.

Did you not read the e-mail that was posted here that some people received (apparently accidentally because Vail is incompetent and was supposed to send warnings first instead of the penalty e-mail...but that's another story)?

Here's the very beginning of it:

Dear Valued Pass Holder,
Over the last three weeks, you have missed or canceled two or more of your pass reservations each week.

 

[abc]

Did you not read the e-mail that was posted here that some people received (apparently accidentally because Vail is incompetent and was supposed to send warnings first instead of the penalty e-mail...but that's another story)?

Except in the "apology email", it was replaced by "multiple weeks"!

So, if the original email was NOT what Vail meant, why should any of its detail be view with such faith?

It's clear Vail is being deliberately vague. Yet people are defending that kind of behavior using their own individual interpretation, with rosy lens no less.

 

[Jersey Skier]

I've cancelled all 3 of my reservations the past 3 weeks. One a week. Haven't heard a thing.

 

[cdskier]

Except in the "apology email", it was replaced by "multiple weeks"!

So, if the original email was NOT what Vail meant, why should any of its detail be view with such faith?

It's clear Vail is being deliberately vague. Yet people are defending that kind of behavior using their own individual interpretation, with rosy lens no less.

And you're being deliberately stubborn. Of course the rules being vague on how exactly abuse is defined is deliberate. They're in uncharted territory. It gives them the flexibility to dynamically adjust things as needed to allow fair access for everyone (not just abc) once they see what is and isn't working and how people are actually using the system. It also limits the possibility of people like you intentionally trying to find ways to game the system and get around the "rules" that you don't like. I don't even know why you bought a pass when you were complaining for quite a while about how it would be a pain in the ass before you bought it. Then you bought it AFTER the reservation system was announced...and yet you still complain. I always find it interesting when people feel they're "entitled" to do whatever they want and that rules don't apply to them. When they don't like something, they'll "demand" a refund on a product/service that was explicitly sold as non-refundable and they'll threaten lawsuits when they don't get their way.

 

[cdskier]

I've cancelled all 3 of my reservations the past 3 weeks. One a week. Haven't heard a thing.

If you cancelled one a week, then that makes sense considering the first e-mail claimed the threshold was 2 cancellations a week for 3 weeks in a row...

 

[kingslug]

Got in 2 hours today and then the wind shut down the 6...didn't rain so I though I would get in at least another hour or 2..but not risking getting stuck on a swinging lift. Only the d and C were running at this point. I was on the North side and went to the front side for 1 run..this was my down fall...North is probably still running but I couldn't get there..

 

[kingslug]

And what are the odds of rain predicted for the 31st...well.it is..but if i cancel...they will come for me
Im doomed.

 

[abc]

And you're being deliberately stubborn.

I'm an individual, I'm not a corporation. I'm not the one who "make the rules". If I were, I'd be held to the same standard.

you bought it AFTER the reservation system was announced...and yet you still complain.

Exactly! "The reservation" with an "open to interpretation" definition of "abuse". When a corporation deliberately make a contract without defining the term of the contract, the onus is on THEM to justify the definition. If they later define the terms with a distinctly bias to themselves, that's also consider "abuse".

Like many liability waiver that aren't worth the paper they're printed on, a contract with deliberately vague language is not worth the phrases they're written on. Both are designed to intimidate the public to accept the unfair terms. But in reality they know they're not on solid ground beyond the vague impression.

Most contracts are defined with as much specific as possible. There's a reason as to why. When a company deliberately fail to be specific, they are trying to weasel some advantages from it. They also accept the potential they may lose many challenges on the vagueness of it. So those who doesn't accept the vague terms has just as much advantage.

 

[da-bum]

Was there tues & wed. On tues, I never saw so many people waiting for the lift to start, but it lightened up until around 10:30 or so, where the lines started looking like the weekend's, so headed to the north, where it is the first time I couldn't ski right onto the lift. There was still a 5 or so min wait for that lift. It didn't lighten up until the very end. There were enough regulars on both sides who refuse to follow the covid rules.

For wed, I booted up on my left foot so it saves me half the time getting ready and got there a little bit later due to breakfast service time that was not under my control. When I got to the lift 5min before opening, it was insane, with tons of family day trippers or vacationers. Good thing I came from the condo side, so I can get on the shorter line, but it was still a long wait. After riding the flyer one more time, couldn't take it anymore so we headed directly to the north, where the lines were relatively short the whole day. covid compliance was much better all around, all the non-regulars must have read the rules.

Does the family/non-regulars/day-trippers not know the trails in the north? Why would the want to wait 20min on a line when there were none on the north? Granted the only easier way down there that day was sleepy hollow, but I though that was good enough for them.

Did the locals get a memo that it was tourists day and not show up? Or did they all get their reservation restricted at the same time? They weren't even congregating in the north side, except for maybe the license plate dude (sans license plate) and his buddies.

Was able to do one run on the main mountain at end of the day o wed and skied cliff/bleeker/ike and it seems like it was untouched. Does family/day trippers avoid those trail and all head to hellgate?

 

[kingslug]

A lot of first timers are coming..Running into them all the time now..They dont even know the north exists.

 

[ss20]

I've cancelled more days than I've reserved and actually ended up skiing with my Ikon. Never heard a thing.

 

[thebigo]

Just took a quick look through my emails and I count 18 cancelations over the last couple weeks. They are all in NH and I have not gotten any emails about the cancels. I have skied one of the vail properties everyday they have been open, excluding tomorrow I expect that streak to stay alive for several more weeks but jan 14 looks tough. The cancels are either swapping mountains or my wife staying home with younger daughter due to no carpet available. I agree with a previous comment about vail being unable to locate new hampshire on a map, I do however assume them to be extremely knowledgeable about their i70 properties and would have to assume local passholders frequently jockey between areas.

 

[kingslug]

Sounds like whatever is going through these reservations and cancelations is doing it...haphazardly?
I would think its computer driven..which should not be haphazard.
Just another thing to add more confusion and stress to our pandemic ski season..

 

[thebigo]

I have found the reservation system to be quite sophisticated. Earlier this week I was booked at crotched, decided I wanted to ski sunapee while eating breakfast, canceled and booked sunapee, put kids on bus and drove 15 minutes before I realized I forgot my coat. Turned around and decided crotched was a better choice due to limited time, drove to crotched and then realized I forgot to switch reservation, made the switch and pass was active five minutes later.

I equate it to a chain restaurant, the less busy locations tolerate significantly more belligerence. The busier locations simply do not have the time and there is another customer waiting to take the drunk guys bar stool.