Hurricane Irene

[Nick]

But the task is monumental, and the window of time between now and when the ground freezes is short.
...

If you haven't donated to the flood relief yet, please please please do so. There are a lot of ways to help, and rather than post them all here, I'll provide a link to where many of them are listed:

http://vtdigger.org/2011/09/02/vermontaid-a-guide-to-flood-relief-help-for-vermonters/

Thank you.

Ski Diva, thanks for the link! That's really helpful of you. Also, I don't know why but I hadn't even considered the impact the ground freezing will have on construction and remediation efforts.

Good luck and thanks for keeping us non-VT'ers informed on what's going on!

 

[Geoff]

Also, I don't know why but I hadn't even considered the impact the ground freezing will have on construction and remediation efforts.

It's actually worse than that. You can't pave roads with hot mix asphalt when the temperatures (air and surface) are below 40F. I'd expect most of the paving work will happen next summer and the roads are going to be pretty messy all winter. You can pour concrete below freezing since the chemical reaction when it cures kicks off a lot of heat.

 

[Abubob]

It's actually worse than that. You can't pave roads with hot mix asphalt when the temperatures (air and surface) are below 40F. I'd expect most of the paving work will happen next summer and the roads are going to be pretty messy all winter. You can pour concrete below freezing since the chemical reaction when it cures kicks off a lot of heat.

So you expect Rte 4 and Rte 100 to that bad? I wonder how that will affect ticket sales then. :-( I'd think twice before risking damaging my car on rutted and frost heaved roads.

 

[Breeze]

You are projecting flatland mobility and business practices on rural Vermont. In Vermont, people own houses for many decades. When most of them were purchased, they went to the local bank and took out a loan. There was no Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac involved and flood insurance was cheap because that was before rich people started building oceanfront trophy homes that made flood insurance unaffordable.

I know that in Bridgewater, VT, only two of the homes that were flooded had flood insurance. Nobody can afford it.

Not to nitpick or be argumentative either, but unless the municipality in which the house/property is located signs on to participate in the National Flood Insurance Program, flood insurance is not easily available to mortgagees. Because the NFIP requires municipalities to write building code to certain specs depending on FEMA rated Flood Zones, some Vermont towns opted out of the loop

Breeze

 

[Geoff]

So you expect Rte 4 and Rte 100 to that bad? I wonder how that will affect ticket sales then. :-( I'd think twice before risking damaging my car on rutted and frost heaved roads.

I've driven thousands of miles on Vermont dirt roads. Until mud month, they're fine.

I think Route 4 from Woodstock to Killington will be fine. I'd be amazed if they didn't have hot top on all the washout spots by the end of September. The blowout of Route 4 in Mendon is much more severe but it is a very short section of road. I don't see how they can get the final coat of hot top there until next summer.

I'm not as optimistic about Route 100. I think there will be a bunch of spots that will be unpaved this winter.

 

[Glenn]

Dirt roads hold up amazingly well once they freeze. Our road is very solid; even after a mid winter thaw. Mud Season is a different story, however.

 

[Nick]

Not to nitpick or be argumentative either, but unless the municipality in which the house/property is located signs on to participate in the National Flood Insurance Program, flood insurance is not easily available to mortgagees. Because the NFIP requires municipalities to write building code to certain specs depending on FEMA rated Flood Zones, some Vermont towns opted out of the loop

Breeze

Politics..... Ugh

Sent with Tapatalk

 

[Breeze]

Not even politically motivated, Nick .


Cheap shot at someone who's been dealing with the NFIP for 22 years . Have You BTDT and what is your personal experience?

I'd offer an apology if I truly used/abused the forum to make an openly political statement. Just the facts : refute if you can.

Breeze

 

[Abubob]

Dirt roads hold up amazingly well once they freeze. Our road is very solid; even after a mid winter thaw. Mud Season is a different story, however.

True that - about dirt roads in winter. We'll won't worry about until next spring then.

 

[Nick]

Not even politically motivated, Nick .


Cheap shot at someone who's been dealing with the NFIP for 22 years . Have You BTDT and what is your personal experience?

I'd offer an apology if I truly used/abused the forum to make an openly political statement. Just the facts : refute if you can.

Breeze

I think that came out wrong. I didn't mean political in terms of D vs. R or even federal level politics. The better phrase for me to use would have been "beaurocracy".

My last job I was doing IT management in the insurance industry - and the loopholes, layers upon layers of administrative headache, and contract language that is so complex it can mean anything and nothing at the same time, is tiresome.

I would imagine its even more so if you are a homeowner impacted by this that is dealing with claims issues because of some regulatory thing the homeowner probably wasn't even aware of. Even if they technically should have known ahead of time.

That's all I meant, not intended to be a cheap shot and my apologies if it came out that way. In my mind I was simply imagining being a homeowner in VT, and because of some municipality decision impacting my ability to get flood insurance and as a result having to deal with the reality of having a demolished property with no way to recoup the loss.

That's the genesis of my "ugh".

 

[deadheadskier]

Visited my folks in Ludlow this past weekend. Quickest way for me to get to Ludlow is through Claremont and then take 131 through Cavendish. Going to be a long while before I'm able to take that route. The following photo was on the cover of Vermont Journal. Army corp of engineers gave our neighbor a quick tour. The hole in 131 is 85 feet deep. :blink:

 

[deadheadskier]

Also decided to swing by the home we owned in town for 15 years. There was a small drainage channel from the road above our property that went under the driveway through an 18 inch culvert. Even during the worst spring runoff seasons or rain storms, the water in the drainage ditch never got deeper than about 6 inches and across the three foot wide channel below the culvert. 300+ days a year, this drainage is bone dry. It takes a major event for any water uphill to not get absorbed into the ground before it even reached our property.

Good thing my folks sold their place and now rent at another location as they're car would still be stuck there. Culvert was completely blown out and no where to be seen leaving a 4 foot deep and 8 foot wide canyon straight through the driveway.

 

[Ski Diva]

VT Gov. Peter Shumlin is asking anyone who owns a second home in Vermont to voluntarily allow displaced Irene flood victims to use it temporarily. If you're interested, call the governor's office at 802/828-3333.

 

[Breeze]

I think that came out wrong. I didn't mean political in terms of D vs. R or even federal level politics. The better phrase for me to use would have been "beaurocracy".

My last job I was doing IT management in the insurance industry - and the loopholes, layers upon layers of administrative headache, and contract language that is so complex it can mean anything and nothing at the same time, is tiresome.

I would imagine its even more so if you are a homeowner impacted by this that is dealing with claims issues because of some regulatory thing the homeowner probably wasn't even aware of. Even if they technically should have known ahead of time.

That's all I meant, not intended to be a cheap shot and my apologies if it came out that way. In my mind I was simply imagining being a homeowner in VT, and because of some municipality decision impacting my ability to get flood insurance and as a result having to deal with the reality of having a demolished property with no way to recoup the loss.

That's the genesis of my "ugh".

I surely didn't get your full meaning from your first response. Texting isn't known for conveying a full meal deal.

I do appreciate your apology, and I offer an apology in return. I'm sorry I called it a " cheap shot" as you did " respond " originally on a device that didn't allow you to be fully clear and understood.

Breeze

 

[riverc0il]

This link was just posted over on SJ:
http://www.mansfieldheliflight.com/flood/

The damage to Route 4 is incredible. A lot of road construction can happen in two months. If Route 4 was the only problem, I bet they could get it done. But how much of a priority is repaving Route 4 when so many bridges and roads are completely impassable? Killington skiers might be driving on dirt in many spots on Route 4 this winter.

Talk about "you can't get there from here". The transportation hardships in VT right now still look substantial.

This must be financially difficult for a state already dealing with a tough economy and reduced revenues. I wonder how much federal aid will help vs how much VT is going to have to sacrifice to pay for the rebuild.

 

[Geoff]

This link was just posted over on SJ:
http://www.mansfieldheliflight.com/flood/

The damage to Route 4 is incredible. A lot of road construction can happen in two months. If Route 4 was the only problem, I bet they could get it done. But how much of a priority is repaving Route 4 when so many bridges and roads are completely impassable? Killington skiers might be driving on dirt in many spots on Route 4 this winter.

Talk about "you can't get there from here". The transportation hardships in VT right now still look substantial.

This must be financially difficult for a state already dealing with a tough economy and reduced revenues. I wonder how much federal aid will help vs how much VT is going to have to sacrifice to pay for the rebuild.

There are other aspects to the Vermont economy than just the tourist business. Route 4 is the major truck route. Route 100 to Route 107 will open as temporary bridges and a dirt road so you can't run trucks that way.

The companies that run asphalt spreaders and rollers are different from the companies that operate big yellow excavators. If you're going to run trucks down Route 4, it needs to be paved or it will get torn to bits.

For town roads: FEMA pays 75%. The state pays 12.5%. The town pays 12.5%. I'm not sure how something called "U.S. 4" is treated.

Another page with good aerial photos is here:

http://wingsovermont.com/

Take a look at the Wheelerville Road shots:
http://wingsovermont.com/Mendonbrook.html

Nobody is taking pictures of the dirt roads. In places like Bridgewater, Pittsfield, Stockbridge, and Mendon, there are many that are completely destroyed.

I wish I'd had my camera out when I drove up East Mountain Road at Killington last Friday morning. The road is a mess. At the steepest part, it's eroded on both sides and no more than 8 feet wide.

 

[drjeff]

There are other aspects to the Vermont economy than just the tourist business. Route 4 is the major truck route. Route 100 to Route 107 will open as temporary bridges and a dirt road so you can't run trucks that way.

The companies that run asphalt spreaders and rollers are different from the companies that operate big yellow excavators. If you're going to run trucks down Route 4, it needs to be paved or it will get torn to bits.

For town roads: FEMA pays 75%. The state pays 12.5%. The town pays 12.5%. I'm not sure how something called "U.S. 4" is treated.

Another page with good aerial photos is here:

http://wingsovermont.com/

Take a look at the Wheelerville Road shots:
http://wingsovermont.com/Mendonbrook.html

Nobody is taking pictures of the dirt roads. In places like Bridgewater, Pittsfield, Stockbridge, and Mendon, there are many that are completely destroyed.

I wish I'd had my camera out when I drove up East Mountain Road at Killington last Friday morning. The road is a mess. At the steepest part, it's eroded on both sides and no more than 8 feet wide.

No need to apologize. Sounds like that was 2 hands on the wheel at all times type of driving (or maybe "off roading" would be the more appropriate term)

 

[Glenn]

The arial shots are amazing.

 

[Nick]

Yeah,they really are amazing. I used on in the newsletter I sent out, really unbelievable to see it from above.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

Visited my folks in Ludlow this past weekend. Quickest way for me to get to Ludlow is through Claremont and then take 131 through Cavendish. Going to be a long while before I'm able to take that route. The following photo was on the cover of Vermont Journal. Army corp of engineers gave our neighbor a quick tour. The hole in 131 is 85 feet deep. :blink:

I am not familiar with the route names, but this would be located if you went straight through (coming from Claremont and through Weathersfield/Ascutney?) the Downers 4 Corners? If so, I was thinking this road must have got hit bad. I go over there from time to time to pick up basic brewing supplies or good brews.