Ideal ski towns for the future factoring in all issues?

[Domeskier]

Where in New Jersey? Most of New Jersey with >$5,000/month rents houses are generally going to cost > $750,000. As you know, $750,000 (unfortunately) doesn't cut it in much of the state.

In terms of condos, it's important to understand that the price per sq/ft on condos (and townhouses) is much higher than for SFH.

For what it's worth, the median sale price in NYC for July was $770k, while the median rent was $4,400. Someone buying the median home in NYC with 20% down at current mortgage rates would pay significantly more than $4,400 per month for it. I guess my assumption that the rent for the median home would equal the median rent is not clearly justified, however.

In my own case, I would get less per month in rent for my place than I would pay to buy it new today with 20% down. Based on street easy data, at least.

 

[LonghornSkier]

My GF and I are paying $4040/month for a one bedroom in Hoboken right now. Housing costs are insane in the Northeast, but quite honestly, not much better in the mountain west (in the desirable areas, not Casper, WY).

 

[KustyTheKlown]

we pay about the same but for a 1200 sq ft 2 bed 2 bath in downtown JC. im worried about the upcoming renewal as we are actually undermarket, which is crazy in and of itself.

we went to an event at knockdown center, which is in ridgewood/maspeth , and looked at zillow while at the bar, and it costs more to live there than it does in jc/hoboken. i dont even want to look at prime bk and manhattan right now. i'd vomit.

i dont know how single people exist here. i guess i did it for a long time but i had much lower standards. i couldnt imagine living as i lived in my 20s now in my late 30s. high walk ups, no dishwashers/washing machines, random ass roommates, unresponsive supers. glad to at least live in a very nice place now (and since cohabitation began about 5 years ago)

 

[LonghornSkier]

we pay about the same but for a 1200 sq ft 2 bed 2 bath in downtown JC. im worried about the upcoming renewal as we are actually undermarket, which is crazy in and of itself.

we went to an event at knockdown center, which is in ridgewood/maspeth , and looked at zillow while at the bar, and it costs more to live there than it does in jc/hoboken. i dont even want to look at prime bk and manhattan right now. i'd vomit.

i dont know how single people exist here. i guess i did it for a long time but i had much lower standards. i couldnt imagine living as i lived in my 20s now in my late 30s. high walk ups, no dishwashers/washing machines, random ass roommates, unresponsive supers. glad to at least live in a very nice place now (and since cohabitation began about 5 years ago)

Yeah, you're under market for sure if that is what you are paying. Granted, we're on the waterfront, have a midtown view, pool, gym etc, but I'm sure your building has many of the same amenities. I'd expect that to go for 4800-4900 at least.

Of course, my buddy just rented his 1300sqft 2 bed/2 bath in SoHo for $13k/month... So that puts it all in perspective when I complain about Hudson County rents.

 

[Former Sunday Rivah Rat]

Rents always go up, never down, Very much unlike locking in a mortgage payment and refinancing lower if you can, while building equity. To me renting seems like the long long road to serfdom. But I have heard you will "own nothing and be happy." I sure as hell wouldn't be happy spending 4-5k a month on an apartment.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Buying equivalent apartments in our areas would be $2M+, with >$1000 monthly HOA and outrageous property taxes in eternity. Impractical. Owning here is only for the very rich or generationally lucky - you didn’t always need to be rich to buy in nyc.

This isn’t my forever home and I doubt it’s longhorns either but people have their reasons for wanting/needing to be in nyc/adjacent, and it sure is fun and full of professional and cultural opportunities

 

[thebigo]

My GF and I are paying $4040/month for a one bedroom in Hoboken right now. Housing costs are insane in the Northeast, but quite honestly, not much better in the mountain west (in the desirable areas, not Casper, WY).

That is absolutely insane. And you pay another five figures in state income tax?

Our total housing costs are <$2500 / month. 2 acres, 2500 square ft home on the NH seacoast with every amenity. We will be paid off in early 50s with an asset likely approaching $1M.

I guess there must be some culture we are missing out on? Just had an awesome seafood dinner with fresh local beer.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Rents always go up, never down.

Rent's going down right now.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/economy/us-rents-may/index.html

 

[BenedictGomez]

you didn’t always need to be rich to buy in nyc.

Hell, you didn't even need to be all that well off in the 90s let alone rich!

 

[ThatGuy]

Rent's going down right now.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/economy/us-rents-may/index.html

This is anecdotal but my rent was $800 in 2020->$1000 in 2022 and they just sent the renewal offer today for $1150. Also my Moms went from $1350 in 2019->$1850 in 2023.

 

[BenedictGomez]

This is anecdotal but my rent was $800 in 2020->$1000 in 2022 and they just sent the renewal offer today for $1150. Also my Moms went from $1350 in 2019->$1850 in 2023.

It really isn't anecdotal, rent absolutely unprecedently skyrocketed during COVID; that's 100% factual. But it's starting to retreat now nationally.

Makes perfect sense, people aren't afraid to (GASP) have a roommate anymore = additional legacy inventory coming online.
Not to mention, given the insane hikes in rents, everyone-and-their-dog started turning out rental properties = even more inventory about to come online.

 

[BenedictGomez]

i dont know how single people exist here. i guess i did it for a long time but i had much lower standards. i couldnt imagine living as i lived in my 20s now in my late 30s. high walk ups, no dishwashers/washing machines, random ass roommates, unresponsive supers.

I was fortunate that both my Manhattan apartments were "special" enough that I never needed a roommate.

Apartment #1: Wall Street - it was only about 3 years after 9/11 & people were still really scared to live down there for 3 reasons
1) The belief air was unclean (my chemistry dual major told me it was probably way overblown & safe)
2) Teeming with armed men (most people here are liberal, so I get their inherent fear, but my right-of-center sensibilities thought seeing M4 carbines everywhere made it the MOST safe part of the city, not the least safe!)
3) The belief another attack would come on the NYSE (a valid concern, but you cant live in total fear, and again, probably overblown I thought).

And believe it or not, this place was concierge!!!!!! Washer, dishwasher, gym, laundry, billiards, rooftop deck overlooking the Hudson! Pretty baller for a rural Jersey kid who grew up on a tiny dairy farm.

Apartment #2: UWS - The aforementioned fear subsided, and rents down by Wall Street skyrocketed (I think they wanted to jack me almost 80% IIRC), so I thought screw this, if I'm going to pay out the azz I may as well live in one of the cooler parts of the city (FYI, FiDI is pretty boring). I responded to a Craigslist ad that curiously not only didn't have a price, but featured precisely zero pictures of the apartment. Weird I thought. But I show up for a viewing anyway, and it turns out it's one of those rare rent stabilized apartments you've read about. I grab it immediately. No washing machine here, or high-end frills though! I befriended the stereotypical Chinese laundry. The rent was cheaper than I paid in Orlando during my MBA! Basically theft.

 

[Harvey]

The other thing about owning is it is another form of forced saving, which IMO America needs.

I started a 401k when I was 28 and bought my first house at 30, and never missed a payment/contribution. The two facts are the reason I can legit consider to retire next year at age 66.

 

[LonghornSkier]

That is absolutely insane. And you pay another five figures in state income tax?

Our total housing costs are <$2500 / month. 2 acres, 2500 square ft home on the NH seacoast with every amenity. We will be paid off in early 50s with an asset likely approaching $1M.

I guess there must be some culture we are missing out on? Just had an awesome seafood dinner with fresh local beer.

I wouldn’t be opposed to moving out of the NYC area (I’ve lived elsewhere, as my username would suggest) but two problems:

1) If I wanted to buy your property or equivalent today in the NH Seacoast, my mortgage payment + property taxes + maintenance would cost a lot more than $4k a month. You allude to this when you say your house is worth $1MM. You got generationally lucky with housing prices-I’m in my late 20’s. I was in high school when housing prices bottomed in 2010-11.
2) While remote work has provided opportunities for some to relocate, my career (corporate strategy) and my significant other’s career (fashion journalism) have far more opportunities in the NYC area than the NH seacoast.

All that said, I am not at all saying my life sucks. I live in a great place, have a good job, max out my 401k, and am able to take ski trips without thinking too much about the financial consequences!

 

[KustyTheKlown]

I was fortunate that both my Manhattan apartments were "special" enough that I never needed a roommate.

Apartment #1: Wall Street - it was only about 3 years after 9/11 & people were still really scared to live down there for 3 reasons
1) The belief air was unclean (my chemistry dual major told me it was probably way overblown & safe)
2) Teeming with armed men (most people here are liberal, so I get their inherent fear, but my right-of-center sensibilities thought seeing M4 carbines everywhere made it the MOST safe part of the city, not the least safe!)
3) The belief another attack would come on the NYSE (a valid concern, but you cant live in total fear, and again, probably overblown I thought).

And believe it or not, this place was concierge!!!!!! Washer, dishwasher, gym, laundry, billiards, rooftop deck overlooking the Hudson! Pretty baller for a rural Jersey kid who grew up on a tiny dairy farm.

Apartment #2: UWS - The aforementioned fear subsided, and rents down by Wall Street skyrocketed (I think they wanted to jack me almost 80% IIRC), so I thought screw this, if I'm going to pay out the azz I may as well live in one of the cooler parts of the city (FYI, FiDI is pretty boring). I responded to a Craigslist ad that curiously not only didn't have a price, but featured precisely zero pictures of the apartment. Weird I thought. But I show up for a viewing anyway, and it turns out it's one of those rare rent stabilized apartments you've read about. I grab it immediately. No washing machine here, or high-end frills though! I befriended the stereotypical Chinese laundry. The rent was cheaper than I paid in Orlando during my MBA! Basically theft.

i lived in a lot of apts like your #2. they were all great at the time, and looking back some were truly actually great. never a dishwasher or washing machine in these apts.

great at the time - a maybe 250 sq ft studio on 5th and bowery. circa 2011. about $1500. this was a really weird rear building - you entered thru an alley between buildings that fronted on the street. my neighbors were a rogues gallery of weirdos. cops were there often. the building had some long time rent stabilized 60s east village types, and one totally mentally unstable person who must have been in some sort of housing program. but it was just my first chance to live alone. young, single, post grad school so the first time in life seeing income coming in. much fun was had.

actually great - 600 sq ft 1 bedroom on norfolk and stanton, circa 2013. this was an old but fairly well maintained tenement that had a fully functional elevator. i had a fire escape which doubled as a balcony. initially this was a move from the bowery studio to cohabitate with a girlfriend, but we broke up fast and it became my apartment. i was a bit overextended financially paying for it alone, but it was a great apartment, on a quiet block in a bustling nightlife area. i wouldnt want to live there now, but again, as a single guy in my late 20s it was amazing. it was also the dating app boom. it was effortless.

 

[deadheadskier]

That is absolutely insane. And you pay another five figures in state income tax?

Our total housing costs are <$2500 / month. 2 acres, 2500 square ft home on the NH seacoast with every amenity. We will be paid off in early 50s with an asset likely approaching $1M.

I guess there must be some culture we are missing out on? Just had an awesome seafood dinner with fresh local beer.

Sure we have some great restaurants and breweries here on the Seacoast, but yes it is lacking in culture. I live here in part due to the proximity to Boston and the cultural opportunities it provides.

And I would say even Boston is lacking in culture compared to most cities of similar size around the country. Really what I mean by culture is ethnic diversity and the foods and customs non-white culture has. Northern New England has near none of that.

That said, there's no place in the country I'd rather live than where I do. The proximity to everything I love to do is unmatched.

 

[Ski2LiveLive2Ski]

Feeling pretty good about my decision to buy in Central NJ 7.5 years ago. 2400sqft for $2k/month including taxes and insurance and its value has appreciated over that period by about the amount I have paid in those expenses. Folks pay that much to rent half as much space around here. Sure I would like to be closer to better skiing, but need to be here til kids finish HS. After that will consider moving a couple hours north where better skiing is closer and train to work (NYC area) is not much longer than it is now.

 

[Harvey]

Feeling pretty good about my decision to buy in Central NJ 7.5 years ago. 2400sqft for $2k/month including taxes and insurance and its value has appreciated over that period by about the amount I have paid in those expenses. Folks pay that much to rent half as much space around here. Sure I would like to be closer to better skiing, but need to be here til kids finish HS. After that will consider moving a couple hours north where better skiing is closer and train to work (NYC area) is not much longer than it is now.

This sounds pretty darn familiar to me.

Daughter is out of HS this year and we are moving north!

 

[RichT]

I cringe when wifey spends $5k on the Visa. But it gets paid in full every month.

As my old man said "If you can't pay CA$H for it, then you can't afford it"
Except for their 1st house purchase in 1966, He paid CA$H for everything. Cars, Boats, SR home
ZERO Debt - Taught me well

Sounds like the advice my dad gave me too, he also said "buy land, they aren't making anymore".