Ideal ski towns for the future factoring in all issues?

[x10003q]

Here are a few more hidden gems out west with great, uncrowded local skiing attached to a real town:
Wenatchee, WA. -10 miles to Mission Ridge - 2000 acres, 2250' vertical, 55 miles from Stevens Pass, Schweitzer Mtn 4:20, the Powder Highway is about 5 hours away
Pocatello, Id. 15 miles to Pebble Creek Ski area - 1100 acres, 2200' vertical, Grand Targhee 2:20, Powder Mtn 2:20, Jackson Hole 3:00, Sun Valley 3:00, Big Sky 3:40
Glenwood Springs, Co. 12 miles to Sunlight Mtn - 730 ares, 2000' vertical, Snowmass/Aspen 40 miles, Beaver Creek 50 miles, Vail 60 miles, Telluride 3:40, Crested Butte 4:00
For medium city life - Reno/Carson City, Boise, Spokane, Colorado Springs, Ogden, Bend are all near decent skiing.

The key is to have easy access to great, uncrowded skiing while living in an affordable area. I am not sure if a permanent move will work, but renting for a month or 2 might be reasonable. An ideal situation (although expensive) might be ending up in Aspen or Jackson Hole, but as we close in to retirement, an area like Mission Ridge and its 2000 uncrowded acres will probably be more than enough fun for daily skiing.

 

[abc]

I need great food, music, art and entertainment to keep me occupied for the remainder of the year. I get all of that and more where I live.

That's why I'll never leave NYC.

I may get a place for a few years for the skiing, or other outdoor recreations. But I won't live there year round. I need to spend at least 1/2 year in NYC to satisfy my cultural craving.

A very wise and wealthy friend once told me, why own when you can rent. Owning is one big pain in the ass. I agree with that statement.

The point is he's RICH. Renting can add up. Whilst owning maybe a big pain in the ass, you stands to gain in capital appreciation while living in it. Even if it doesn't appreciate in value, you still get to live "rent free" in exchange for your hassle/PITA.

So for those who aren't rich, owning is their way of renting, without paying rent. More precisely, they pay rent with their labor.

 

[jaytrem]

Here are a few more hidden gems out west with great, uncrowded local skiing attached to a real town:
Wenatchee, WA. -10 miles to Mission Ridge - 2000 acres, 2250' vertical, 55 miles from Stevens Pass, Schweitzer Mtn 4:20, the Powder Highway is about 5 hours away

Should be there in about a week if I have the guts to get on a plane (with kids). Got my first shot today, but is probably no help for the outbound flight.

 

[dblskifanatic]

Here are a few more hidden gems out west with great, uncrowded local skiing attached to a real town:
Wenatchee, WA. -10 miles to Mission Ridge - 2000 acres, 2250' vertical, 55 miles from Stevens Pass, Schweitzer Mtn 4:20, the Powder Highway is about 5 hours away
Pocatello, Id. 15 miles to Pebble Creek Ski area - 1100 acres, 2200' vertical, Grand Targhee 2:20, Powder Mtn 2:20, Jackson Hole 3:00, Sun Valley 3:00, Big Sky 3:40
Glenwood Springs, Co. 12 miles to Sunlight Mtn - 730 ares, 2000' vertical, Snowmass/Aspen 40 miles, Beaver Creek 50 miles, Vail 60 miles, Telluride 3:40, Crested Butte 4:00
For medium city life - Reno/Carson City, Boise, Spokane, Colorado Springs, Ogden, Bend are all near decent skiing.

The key is to have easy access to great, uncrowded skiing while living in an affordable area. I am not sure if a permanent move will work, but renting for a month or 2 might be reasonable. An ideal situation (although expensive) might be ending up in Aspen or Jackson Hole, but as we close in to retirement, an area like Mission Ridge and its 2000 uncrowded acres will probably be more than enough fun for daily skiing.

Glenwood Springs is not cheap! I was going to work for a utility out that way (Carbondale) and housing was going to cost more than it would in Colorado Springs for the same size home. Sunlight is a cool ski area but the lifts are awfully slow. When there is a powder day it last for days for that reason, Glenwood Springs is a cool town though.

Good spots though!

 

[gladerider]

This topic came up in a different thread. Although I still have a decent way to go, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on great places to settle down after the kids are in college and in retirement. Some of the obvious ones to me haven't been affordable in years so I'm curious about up and coming or alternative type places. Places like Park City, Telluride, Aspen, Jackson, etc. are just plain unaffordable these days.

I mentioned Saratoga Springs, NY. It's probably on the expensive side if you live right in town, but to me, it has a lot going for it. It's a college town so it remains young and vibrant. It has a bustling downtown area full of restaurants, shops, and bars. The track makes things really fun and interesting in the summer. The performing arts center gets great shows. Albany is 30 minutes away for bigger city things and an airport. Quick access to outdoor recreation and Gore is one hour away.

hmm. never thought about saratoga. it is a good town. close to everything.
not so tax friendly to retirees though

 

[cdskier]

I moved out west from New Jersey 26 years ago, mainly for the skiing but quickly realized it was much more about escaping the rat race lifestyle. I don’t think that a lot of people that live in it actually realize how much affect it has on their overall quality of life. Those “conveniences” aren’t, really. Skiing in Jackson when I lived there 20 years ago started to mirror the rat race lifestyle and once I saw that I left. I had created a stressful environment, early trams, finding parking, scaring the crap out of myself to impress sponsors.....it was dumb and it wore me the f out. Now all I want is quiet, listen to the birds and be around as few people as possible.

I live in NJ and have had this feeling growing and growing for quite some time. I just have absolutely no idea where I'd want to go. Really the main thing keeping me in NJ is family connections (parents, grandmother, brother is 30 minutes away in Rockland county NY with his wife and my nephew, only 3 hours from my sister and her family in Baltimore, etc). I do also enjoy all the great BYOB restaurants we have in NJ around me. But that's about it.

I've had a 45 mile commute to work (from north jersey to central jersey) for over 15 years now. Before the pandemic I was up to working 2 days remotely from home and only had to make the drive 3 days a week. Now after not doing that commute at all for over a year, I don't know how I can go back to it. There's so much more time in the day when I'm not spending 2+ hours a day driving (and not having to deal with all the idiots on the road has reduced stress significantly as well).

And now since early January I've been living in the Mad River Valley and love the peace and quiet. It has been an incredibly relaxing couple months so far. I still don't think I could live here year-round though. Fun during ski season, but I think I'd be a bit bored and somewhat lonely the rest of the year.

Not really ideal for skiing, but the Finger Lakes is one place I could see wanting to live.

 

[abc]

Yes. Danbury, Bethel, Brookfield, New Fairfield are all not-too-bad-priced upper middle-class neighborhoods. But that is rapidly changing. There is very little development for the "common" man happening, residential or commercial... it's all focused on upscale. 15 years ago the Danbury Mall had a Sears, CVS, pet shop, arcade, an Uno and a Ruby Tuesday's. Now it's literally all upscale stores, and the only sit-down restaurant is a Cheesecake Factory. Nearly every new restaurant/bar is high-end. Toll Brothers has taken over Bethel and all they build is luxury townhouses on crappy tracts of land. $500k for new construction 2-3bd townhouse where your "yard" is a 15ft strip of grass to a fence, another home, a retaining wall, or a sheer cliff... absolutely insane.

What kills me is that people still pay that kind of $$$ and a good chunk commute down to NYC. Which either by road or train (both of which haven't been upgraded since the population was a fraction of what is is now) is roughly 2 hours into Manhattan. Even if you're going down to Stamford it's sheer hell getting down there without an actual highway.

I lived in upper Fairfield (actually a few miles north of the county line in Litchfield) about 12 years back. I like Danbury Mall now a lot better than back then.

Needless to say, I'm one of "those people" who pushed the area upscale.

Yeah, even the area I now live (across the state line on the I-684 corridor) has gone a whole lot busier from when I first settled down here. While I don't exactly embrace the crowds, I can't say I'm sorry for the appreciation of my house that comes with it!

Very few people living in that my old area commute to NYC when I used to live there. I still don't know too many people do that now. Where I'm living now, it's only a tad over an hour train ride to the city. But still not that many people commute to the city daily. But it's just perfect distance for the remote working crowd though. An occasional commute, or a couple days a week, complete the day with a night out in the city.

Time had changed. How we work changed. Where people live change with it. Property value change to reflect that.

Choose where you want to live, AND can afford. If it's a good place, it may get more popular. But if that happens, and you don't like the crowd, you'll be in a good position to cash out and move to some place else less crowded.

If you can't afford to live where you want, just keep in mind you'll be trading something living some place less expensive. It's perfectly alright to compromise, as long as you're honest to yourself on what you're giving up.

 

[gladerider]

as the OP, i have the same question to myself. don't want to retire in NJ but it is difficult to leave behind what you get from NYC suburb.
skiing is a big part of what i want in the next move but not the only part for me.

i always thought the Seattle area would be great for me on paper. after my recent visit there, i was disappointed. maybe i need to spend more time but liked Vancouver much more.

my wife and i spend a lot of time and $ on visiting restaurants and Denver was a big surprise. in fact, food was very good in CO in general. not sure if i would say the same in UT but then again, my last visit to SLC was almost 7 years ago. need to go back.

thought Tahoe was way too expensive. a decent lot around the lake is like $4-500k.

NH is also interesting

 

[2Planker]

Ely, Nevada.

Santa Fe or Taos NM.

Any of the small towns on the north/east side of Wolf Creek Pass, CO.

Terrace BC.

McCall, ID.

Salida, CO.

Parowan, UT.

Cedar City, UT.

Beaver, UT.

Woss, BC.

Smithers BC.

I've been to Smithers BC. Buddy grew up there and went to play hockey at Quinnipiac before getting drafted by San Jose

 

[crank]

All the issues...

Cost
Transportation
Climate
Local ski terrain
Culture
Off season activities
Live in town or at mountain or both. (Aspen, Park City, Telluride are examples of "both")

Must be more I'm not thinking of.

We have been putting thought into this for a few years.

We fell in love with Whitefish on a ski trip and were serious enough about it that we returned for a week in late summer. We hiked, mountain biked, even looked at a few houses in town. Still really like it. Houses, of course, cost a bit more now, still affordable for us. There is enough happening in the town, live music, restaurants and such. We would buy in town, walking distance to shopping, etc. and take advantage of free bus to and from ski hill about 7 miles distant. Small - medium sized airport a half hour away, however, not direct flights to many places. We think being located out west would be nice for road trips to national parks or big resort ski safaris.

Climate - well it's pretty far north and pretty cold. Good hedge for global warming?

Local ski terrain - Whitefish is our kind of hill meaning tons of tree skiing and a decent pitch though nothing that a good skier would call scary.

Off season - tons of hiking, biking, mtn. biking. Flathead valley os pretty lush for western US. rivers, lakes, forests...got it all.



And then we think we might want to stay here in the northeast. All our friends and family are here. We love VT and can afford to buy there and can afford the taxes too. Reliable snow and snow pack is an issue. Areas we are thinking about include Mad River Vally, VT. NH (We have good friends in Sunape - not so good we want to live too close to them) we really like the berkshires in MA, the area around Williamstown. It is close to to the VT border and not far from Berkshire East. So. VT. skiing in fairly easy reach. Lots of cultural activity, especially with Tanglewood in the summer.

And then we really like where we live now. We are walking distance to a great theatre, The Capitol in Port Chester, NY. Can't wait until we can walk down the hill for some great shows again! Half hour from Manhattan. Beautiful hiking and biking in our Hudson River Valley region. Love visiting wife's best friend out in Hampton Bays LI in the summer. We would consider buying out there save for the hassle it would be to get to the mountains.

We may try some month long rentals in a few areas to see how we like it. I am retired and my wife can work from anywhere with internet. She has about 5 years before she will be ready to quit working.

Of course, health is a big factor in all our plans and hopefully we all get to enjoy the mountains for many years to come.

 

[raisingarizona]

Good posts. Good list of small towns. This is the kind of input I value from RaisingAZ, thoughtful, constructive and based on real experience.
As I said in another post, every place has its pros and cons. Much of UT and CO have become too popular for their own good. But on a good day both are amazing. A lot of the skiing at quieter locations features less variety, or less snowfall, or colder temps, or whatever. Life involves compromises.

I've passed through Moab a couple times. There is a lot of great scenery there, but at times I have mixed feelings picturing the pristine, amazing geography swarming with various types of motorized vehicles.

About the rat race: I drove from UT to Wash DC last week. I returned to the DC metro area during a Friday evening rush hour. Since covid, the rush hours around the Capital Beltway have not been the same horrible things they were in the past, but last Friday seemed closer to the pre-covid norm. Traffic was heavy with multiple wrecks radiating in all directions 50 miles out from the city core. In SLC there is only one main artery that sees any significant rush hour traffic. It is Interstate 15 running north-south through the city. They consider it a bad rush hour if you have a 10 minute delay during a 25 mile commute. To slow down below 60mph on this road is unusual. That is child's play compared to rush hour in most metro areas on the East and West coasts of America.

Yeah, I’ve been to Moab when it’s bustling and it can be overwhelming imo. Incredible area for sure, I’ve been meaning to get back to do some backpacking but I camp for work so it’s hard to motivate for that.

The Mormons sure do know how to lay out a city. It’s so easy to navigate around SLC, a stark contrast from say.....Boston.

I love those southern Mormon towns I listed. The people are extremely friendly and there’s literally no crime. Parowan is one of the prettiest towns I’ve ever seen and it’s just down the hill from Brianhead. It’s Don’t tread on me Trump country but that doesn’t bother me at all. I love the desert vibe in that region and sure you gotta drive uphill to get to the snow you barely ever have to shovel or deal with the inconvenience that comes with heavy snow. One thing that I’ve heard is that the Mormon community is really nice at first while they try and convert you but if you resist you will eventually get a cold shoulder. I think it could get lonely. Cedar City is a college town so maybe there’s a bit more diversity there but I can’t say for sure. You can definitely feel their judgement with their eyes around there but they still do it with a smile.

There’s quite a bit of that hard core polygamist culture down there. I’m a supporter of religious freedom and all but it does have that oppression of woman vibe to it. I’m not sure I love that but everyone I’ve encountered from that group has been very nice.

it’s definitely time to get in while you can, the whole area is exploding and the Californian developers are eyeing up every town. There’s a lot of retirees coming to southern Utah.

And two hours a day eventually adds up to being a good chunk of your life Jim. It sounds like you’ve got a good thing figured out now. Ski towns definitely feel lonely during the off seasons and there isn’t much to do while waiting for the snow to melt.

 

[snoseek]

If I ended up back out there I would probably go to fruita as I like being down in the desert, almost year round mtb, moab is close, daily convenience of gj is ten minutes, powderhorn is a fun local hill and colorado resorts are all probably an easier drive than Denver's at this point. Then again I really am all set with being in an actual ski town.

 

[abc]

health is a big factor in all our plans

That's actually a big part when choosing where to live.

Mountain towns may have great orthopedics to fix up broken bone and torn ligaments for the adrenalin junkie. How about block arteries of a retiree?

 

[raisingarizona]

I've been to Smithers BC. Buddy grew up there and went to play hockey at Quinnipiac before getting drafted by San Jose

What did you think?

 

[raisingarizona]

If I ended up back out there I would probably go to fruita as I like being down in the desert, almost year round mtb, moab is close, daily convenience of gj is ten minutes, powderhorn is a fun local hill and colorado resorts are all probably an easier drive than Denver's at this point. Then again I really am all set with being in an actual ski town.

I was going to mention GJ. It’s an awesome area.

 

[raisingarizona]

All the issues...

Cost
Transportation
Climate
Local ski terrain
Culture
Off season activities
Live in town or at mountain or both. (Aspen, Park City, Telluride are examples of "both")

Must be more I'm not thinking of.

We have been putting thought into this for a few years.

We fell in love with Whitefish on a ski trip and were serious enough about it that we returned for a week in late summer. We hiked, mountain biked, even looked at a few houses in town. Still really like it. Houses, of course, cost a bit more now, still affordable for us. There is enough happening in the town, live music, restaurants and such. We would buy in town, walking distance to shopping, etc. and take advantage of free bus to and from ski hill about 7 miles distant. Small - medium sized airport a half hour away, however, not direct flights to many places. We think being located out west would be nice for road trips to national parks or big resort ski safaris.

Climate - well it's pretty far north and pretty cold. Good hedge for global warming?

Local ski terrain - Whitefish is our kind of hill meaning tons of tree skiing and a decent pitch though nothing that a good skier would call scary.

Off season - tons of hiking, biking, mtn. biking. Flathead valley os pretty lush for western US. rivers, lakes, forests...got it all.



And then we think we might want to stay here in the northeast. All our friends and family are here. We love VT and can afford to buy there and can afford the taxes too. Reliable snow and snow pack is an issue. Areas we are thinking about include Mad River Vally, VT. NH (We have good friends in Sunape - not so good we want to live too close to them) we really like the berkshires in MA, the area around Williamstown. It is close to to the VT border and not far from Berkshire East. So. VT. skiing in fairly easy reach. Lots of cultural activity, especially with Tanglewood in the summer.

And then we really like where we live now. We are walking distance to a great theatre, The Capitol in Port Chester, NY. Can't wait until we can walk down the hill for some great shows again! Half hour from Manhattan. Beautiful hiking and biking in our Hudson River Valley region. Love visiting wife's best friend out in Hampton Bays LI in the summer. We would consider buying out there save for the hassle it would be to get to the mountains.

We may try some month long rentals in a few areas to see how we like it. I am retired and my wife can work from anywhere with internet. She has about 5 years before she will be ready to quit working.

Of course, health is a big factor in all our plans and hopefully we all get to enjoy the mountains for many years to come.

I had one of my most terrifying falls ever off the east rim just past NBC on a surprisingly icy day. Lost an edge on my first turn and ended up going on a slide for life on my back and head first. I’ll never forget watching all of the trees and rocks go by me as I flailed and couldn’t stop myself. I was hauling ass for probably 3 or 400 hundred feet. It was an extremely close call and left me with a new respect for the mountains and a healthy dose of ptsd. I learned a lot about observing conditions and risk management that day!

whitefish is a fairly tame mountain but there’s definitely a couple spots that can throw you for a loop every now and then.

 

[mikec142]

These are all great responses. For me, there is still so much unknown that I don't want to go too far down the planning road. For the most part, I've been a lifelong NJ resident. I have a college freshman and HS junior who I adore and I'd like to think they adore us back. My wife and I are very close with our parents who both live in the same town as us. When my kids were young, our parents were very helpful with our kids. If we needed to work late, there was always someone to help out. All four parents range in age from 75-78. They are still active and healthy, but who knows how long that lasts. Is it fair for my family and I to pack up and move just when they might start needing our help? We are very tight knit across the three generations and while I'd love to get out of the NJ rat race...I'm not sure it's happening anytime soon. The real thing will be to see where my kids settle down. My fondest wish is that they end up near each other and if so, wherever that is, my wife and I will end up there. If one ends up in LA and the other Florida...then all bets are off.

 

[kbroderick]

The point is he's RICH. Renting can add up. Whilst owning maybe a big pain in the ass, you stands to gain in capital appreciation while living in it. Even if it doesn't appreciate in value, you still get to live "rent free" in exchange for your hassle/PITA.

So for those who aren't rich, owning is their way of renting, without paying rent. More precisely, they pay rent with their labor.

If you're renting to stay mobile, there's also the cost of needing to find a new rental every x weeks or months. If you're renting for a month and have a well-padded checkbook, that's not a particularly big lift; if your budget is tighter, or you're looking to find a place for longer-term residence, that's more of a challenge, especially if your desired rental period is peak busy time for the location.

IMO, characteristics to look for would be:
a) decent skiing: at least 1500 vertical feet of skiing, and the right combination of snowfall and weather that you get to ski the whole mountain (including trees and such) more often than not. Some challenge is good, of course, but that can take a lot of forms and certainly doesn't need to be Jackson/Big Sky/Bridger/KH-type options. Also, being a second- or third-tier ski area rather than a major destination can have huge benefits in terms of reduced crowding; I think I'd rather retire at Bolton Valley than at Killington, all things considered. Killington on a weekday sleeper storm is pretty damn good, but BV (at least when I last spent time there) offers fresh tracks far longer after the storm.
If you are interested in uphill travel, I'd add:
a.i) a liberal uphill policy that seems unlikely to change for pre/post-season access
a.ii) good access to local backcountry skiing, ideally on public lands (this also hedges against changes in a.i)
b) a real local community. Killington comes up short in this regard—there is a community of year-round residents, but it's overwhelmed by the seasonal visitors and tourists. BV probably has even fewer local residents, but the visitors tends to be relatively local and don't overwhelm it the way the New Yorkers do Killington on busy weekends. MRV may be among the best examples, but cost of living is substantial.
c) also being a significant draw for other forms of outdoor recreation (whether that be climbing, mountain biking, fly fishing, or what-have-you). Big bonus points if that happens to be your favored off-season activity, but regardless, it helps draw like-minded people into the area.
d) not near a major destination airport. Yes, I realize this is a downside for a resident's ability to travel cheaply, but it works in reverse, too—it makes it harder for people to visit cheaply, plus they tend to put major hubs in densely populated areas.
e) having a cost of living and tax structure that works with your finances (this may vary with your type(s) of income as well as the amounts)

I'm sure there are towns throughout the west that meet the above criteria, as well. I'm familiar with one and I'm not naming it because it's already growing more than I'd like.

 

[PAabe]

Glenwood Springs, Co. 12 miles to Sunlight Mtn

Two of my aunts and uncles used to live out there. My one aunt who was the big skier worked at Whiteface then Aspen Highlands and skied backcountry, before my time. Needless to say they ended up in South Carolina and now live on a old cruiser boat doing the loop. The other aunt and uncle (nurse and mechanic) lived out behind Silt there quite a bit longer, we used to visit them but mostly in the summer. The extent of my experience skiing out west is therefore a few times at Sunlight. They had to do the whole water truck deal and stuff. They skied Sunlight and Steamboat but were more interested in the summer activities - now they live in an RV and hang out at the beach a lot. They really lived in the middle of nowhere by Silt but even Silt was starting to get suburbanized by the time they left.

Not really ideal for skiing, but the Finger Lakes is one place I could see wanting to live.

I should be getting out of college soon, may have to consider looking for jobs in N Pa or upstate NY. The hills may not be big but at least they get dumps of snow- good for cross country! You're even then not a super far drive from the coast but boy is it different up there. Lots of relatively small places so that you could easily have a ski area in your back yard. Good hiking, biking, paddling, sailing, close to the Adirondacks which are just about my favorite place to be. Seems like a great area.

 

[Ski2LiveLive2Ski]

A related question
- places to live where you can day trip (under 6hr roundtrip) to both skiing at least 1000' vertical and warm-enough-to-swim ocean beaches

Really only 3 options in the US

1. Philly-NJ-NYC region (fair to good skiing, nice beaches)
2. Boston region (very good skiing, beaches a bit cold)
3. LA region (best beaches and I believe best skiing of any of them - but I have never skied there)

I live in NJ so at least have access to both. And can be at a beach in 45 min and be booting up at Blue Mt in 95 min or at Hunter in 170 min.