Improvements you'd make?

[MadMadWorld]

How long ago was Stowe's Liftline half-the-width it is now? I first went to Stowe in 1994, and I haven't seen a significant trail change since then.

Note, I agree with you that Liftline is usually fairly easy... But I've always heard this "the front four have changed" mantra, and I've never seen a picture of their original configuration, so it's more a historical question -- how far back do you need to go to have skied them in their "original state"? I've seen elsewhere that the original seven turns of Nosedive were removed in 1968?, meaning that in my lifetime, that trail has never been skied in its "original" form. (I was born in 1970).

I believe a lot of the cosmetic changes to Liftline and trails like Goat were done when the ForeRunner Quad was put in around 1986. There may have been some small changes since then. I'll admit I am not a big Stowe guy so I am sure there is someone out there with better knowledge than me.

 

[BenedictGomez]

It used to be half the width as it is now. They graded it and removed pretty much all of the natural obstacles that making skiing liftlines at other resorts so much fun.

Exactly.

I do not consider Liftline at Stowe a double-diamond. It's a single black diamond in my book.

They plan to replace the Sterling double within the next couple of years. The problem with replacing Madonna I with a higher capacity lift is that they wouldn't be able to keep all of it's natural terrain open as much. I can't imagine how often Liftline would be open if they put a high speed quad in there.

So few people ski Liftline at Smuggs that I dont think it would make much difference.

As for the "higher-capacity would lead to crowded trails" at Smuggs thing, I've heard this for YEARS now as the reason those lifts are from the Cretaceous Period. I didnt believe it then, and I dont believe it now. Frankly, even were that true, we'd only be talking about Saturdays and a few Holidays, as Smuggs is a ski-onto-the-lifts mountain Monday - Friday. But whatever the capacity issue may be, even on Saturdays, Madonna can certainly handle some additional capacity without ill-effect right now.

Decrease snowmaking at Plattekill. I realize from a business stand point it required, but one of the things that originally drew me to Plattekill was the natural snow and lack of grooming.

Great point, and I agree. I didnt mean become like Hunter and blow snow all over the place. But I do think increased snowmaking early season to get them going, and then during season to patch things up due to bouts of bad weather (like today) or thaws would help tremendously. Natural snow is king, but you dont get to enjoy natural snow at all if you cant preserve any base.

 

[deadheadskier]

Which ones? Front Five are fine the way they are for ripping.

While obviously not as experienced with Cannon as you are, I disagree. I have enjoyed ripping those trails, but a bit of variety would be better in my book. Maybe a straight shot narrow bump run and couple of other narrow ungroomed twisting runs to go along with a few wide trails would be a lot better than just 5 Super wide trails the Front Five are currently.

 

[AdironRider]

Given that the narrow bump runs are already covered over on the hardscrabbles, I dont think it would add more variety, more like just swap out groomers for more bumps.

 

[St. Bear]

Great point, and I agree. I didnt mean become like Hunter and blow snow all over the place. But I do think increased snowmaking early season to get them going, and then during season to patch things up due to bouts of bad weather (like today) or thaws would help tremendously. Natural snow is king, but you dont get to enjoy natural snow at all if you cant preserve any base.

Having a robust snowmaking system and over grooming do not necessarily go hand in hand. I've only been to Hunter 5 times or so, but what I've found they do extremely well is blow a solid base, so whatever natural does fall is not needed to open terrain, but rather makes for fun skiing.

For example, I've skied Wildcat a few days after a storm, and their natural trails were large bumps with dirt and grass in the troughs. Sure it's natural snow and a lack of grooming, but it's not really a quality product. Now I haven't been there since Peak took over, so maybe that's changed, but that's the best example I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[C-Rex]

As for the "higher-capacity would lead to crowded trails" at Smuggs thing, I've heard this for YEARS now as the reason those lifts are from the Cretaceous Period. I didnt believe it then, and I dont believe it now. Frankly, even were that true, we'd only be talking about Saturdays and a few Holidays, as Smuggs is a ski-onto-the-lifts mountain Monday - Friday. But whatever the capacity issue may be, even on Saturdays, Madonna can certainly handle some additional capacity without ill-effect right now.

Agreed. I'm not saying that a HSQ wouldn't be nice. I just hope that if they do it, they know when to say when. When a resort adds uphill capacity, they market it strongly, as they should. But then when they get good business results from that it's like they say, "hey we got some growth from adding capacity before, let's do it again." and they tend to want to go further. I'd just hate to see it become a Mt. Snow with like 30 people getting dropped at the top every 10 seconds. (I know this is an exaggeration. No need for anyone Mt. Snow fanboys to get all fired up.)

 

[deadheadskier]

Given that the narrow bump runs are already covered over on the hardscrabbles, I dont think it would add more variety, more like just swap out groomers for more bumps.

Too each their own. I just think having 5 super highway type trails is overkill for 1 terrain pod. There are slight differences between them, mainly in pitch, but a bit more variety in that pod would've been better IMO.

 

[Puck it]

While obviously not as experienced with Cannon as you are, I disagree. I have enjoyed ripping those trails, but a bit of variety would be better in my book. Maybe a straight shot narrow bump run and couple of other narrow ungroomed twisting runs to go along with a few wide trails would be a lot better than just 5 Super wide trails the Front Five are currently.

All of the front five have bumps on the them and groomed sections, so it would not really add much and the tree in between ecah run are glades.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I think Burke needs a HSB6 (High-Speed Bubble Six) in the East Bowl and a Sherburne Base to Summit Tram in the West Bowl.

 

[C-Rex]

The Flyer Express at Jay needs to be a bubble lift. The wind in your face coming over that rise is brutal.

 

[from_the_NEK]

The Flyer Express at Jay needs to be a bubble lift. The wind in your face coming over that rise is brutal.

I'm not sure that would work so well. it would kind of turn the chairs into sails...

 

[wa-loaf]

No. Mt. Snow is the last southern VT resort that doesn't groom and have snowmaking on everything.

There's this place called Magic in S VT ....


Sugarloaf to finish out Bracket Basin and put in a T-bar up Burnt Mtn (no trails ...).

 

[deadheadskier]

All of the front five have bumps on the them and groomed sections, so it would not really add much and the tree in between ecah run are glades.

What I'm suggesting is having a trail like Misery Whip thrown in there. Hell, you could have put 3 Misery Whips in between the Zoomer Lift line and Paulie's. You also could have put in 2 narrower trails in between the lift and Gary's instead of the super wide Rocket.

In general, I just don't particularly care for super wide trails. That Pod consists of 5 Super Wide trails and some decent trees in between. It could be a lot better (for my tastes).

 

[bdfreetuna]

More woods everywhere. Steep narrow trails. Less grooming. Less ropes.

 

[MadMadWorld]

What I'm suggesting is having a trail like Misery Whip thrown in there. Hell, you could have put 3 Misery Whips in between the Zoomer Lift line and Paulie's. You also could have put in 2 narrower trails in between the lift and Gary's instead of the super wide Rocket.

In general, I just don't particularly care for super wide trails. That Pod consists of 5 Super Wide trails and some decent trees in between. It could be a lot better (for my tastes).

I completely agree. That pod would be a great trail pod if it had a LOT more diversity.

 

[MadMadWorld]

Exactly.

I do not consider Liftline at Stowe a double-diamond. It's a single black diamond in my book.



So few people ski Liftline at Smuggs that I dont think it would make much difference.

As for the "higher-capacity would lead to crowded trails" at Smuggs thing, I've heard this for YEARS now as the reason those lifts are from the Cretaceous Period. I didnt believe it then, and I dont believe it now. Frankly, even were that true, we'd only be talking about Saturdays and a few Holidays, as Smuggs is a ski-onto-the-lifts mountain Monday - Friday. But whatever the capacity issue may be, even on Saturdays, Madonna can certainly handle some additional capacity without ill-effect right now.

Yes, Liftline does not see a ton of traffic but that is the reason it stays open. Sugarbush opted for the same thing when they were deciding to replace the Castlerock Double.

 

[ChicoKat]

I would improve our winters. The rest would take care of itself!

 

[legalskier]

More woods everywhere. Steep narrow trails. Less grooming. Less ropes.

I heartily agree.
Unfortunately the modern trend appears to be going in the opposite direction.

I'm not sure that would work so well. it would kind of turn the chairs into sails...

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I've heard that this happens at Mt Snow. Does it help at all by having the bubble in the down position even if no one is riding the chair?[/FONT]

 

[Smellytele]

I've heard that this happens at Mt Snow. Does it help at all by having the bubble in the down position even if no one is riding the chair?

Pretty sure the doctor will disagree that it happens at Mt Snow.

 

[RISkier]

I mostly like Stowe and I suppose this is motivated because I'm a lazy old man but it seems to me everything is uphill to a lot of lifts. If you base at the old Mansfield lodge it's heart attack hill to the lift. Base at Midway it's an uphill ski to the fourrunner quad (yes, I know, you can ride the Gondi, take cliff trail to Nosedive, then shoot through the little trail through the trees over to ? and go down to the lift. That assumes you know it and it's all open), take the lift from Spruce to Mansfield and it's uphill to the quad. The run outs from the skiers right side of the mountain are uphill to the quad. The Midway lodge which I really like is now really in a goofy spot given all the other main lifts. I'd have run the over easy lift from the slope side of the new Spruce Peak Lodge to the Midway Lodge. Then add a rope tow (like the rope tow between the lodges at Alta) from the Gondola loading area to the quad. And if possible (I've heard they were not permitted to do this) move the loading area of the quad to a lower location.