Indy Ski Pass

[Harvey]

Certainly Indy faced issues with Cooper, with such a large network of partners, and so many buying the season pass with no intention of skiing Cooper.

NB is much smaller, but maybe they felt they had to be consistent in the approach. It didn't take that long for Cooper to get huge.

What is the revenue share with NB? I know Cooper is 0% and Indy is 85% (I think).

 

[Bosco DaSkia]

Where is the data that backs up your claim that “so many buying the season pass with no intention of skiing Cooper.”?



You are hardly a disinterested party in this situation. Indy is a main advertiser on your forum.

 

[snoseek]

I bought an add on pass as ethically I thought it was the right thing to do vs epic/ikon. I'm not sure this might be a one and done kinda thing. Maybe a ragged/jay pass next year? Back to epic? I just don't know anymore...

 

[Harvey]

Where is the data that backs up your claim that “so many buying the season pass with no intention of skiing Cooper.”?

You are hardly a disinterested party in this situation. Indy is a main advertiser on your forum.

You are correct, I was projecting what I know to be true about one hill (Plattekill) to the larger group. Probably not legit. Still the potential is there, and it is a fact that Cooper ski area operators are concerned about it, and expressing that concern. I believe that is what drive Indy's response to Cooper.

You are also correct that I've supported Indy since I first learned about it. But it's not about money, not a dime has changed hands. I personally think Epic/Ikon are slowly undermining skiing. They have every right to do so, it's capitalism. But I don't have to like it.

The reality is that NYSB advertising revenue is chump change, that doesn't even cover our hosting cost. None of that revenue comes from Indy.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Certainly Indy faced issues with Cooper, with such a large network of partners, and so many buying the season pass with no intention of skiing Cooper.

This is patently false. We've chosen not to engage this situation publicly, so I'll leave it at that & send you a message.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

where is the list of 50 new resorts they are promoting today?

 

[Smellytele]

where is the list of 50 new resorts they are promoting today?

They said the list comes out on Oct 10.

 

[urungus]

“we’re thrilled to announce 50+ new resorts for 23/24 including Austria’s largest resort, new Japan destinations, XC resorts, and many more fiercely independent ski areas in North America.”

Austrias largest would be Ski Arlberg ?

 

[drjeff]

In the US, Canada, Europe and Japan per the Storm Skiing Podcast website, and both alpine and cross country make up the 50 that will be announced next week.

So it won't be 50 new alpine areas

 

[thetrailboss]

Here's the email from No Boundaries:

----

Dartmouth Skiway and Whaleback have been forced to leave the No Boundaries Pass

Here's the short version:
We've lowered the price of the No Boundaries Pass to $99. It now provides up to 3 days of skiing at each of our three partner mountains: Tenney, Mt. Abram, and Granite Gorge. Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway were unexpectedly given an ultimatum by the Indy Pass and forced to leave the No Boundaries Pass. We're actively looking for new partner mountains to add before the season starts. Everyone who already purchased a pass was offered the lower price or a full refund.

Here's what happened:
We put the 23/24 No Boundaries Pass on sale just a few weeks ago. It provided between 1 and 3 days of skiing at each of our five partner mountains (Tenney, Mt. Abram, Granite Gorge, Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway) for just $119. Apparently our product was viewed as a threat by the Indy Pass.

Both Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway were on our pass last year, and we've worked with both of them in prior years as well. Last season, Indy Pass created their "Allied" resort program. Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway joined that program. They were not part of the formal Indy Pass, but Indy Passholders were entitled to discounts on day tickets. This program and the No Boundaries Pass existed simultaneously last year without issues, and Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway (which operate as non-profits) benefited by being aligned to both products.

Immediately after we put the No Boundaries Pass on sale this year, the folks at Indy Pass gave Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway an ultimatum: Get off the No Boundaries Pass or we'll terminate your relationship with Indy Pass. We weren't directly involved in those conversations, but the management teams at Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway told us they were shocked and frustrated that Indy Pass would put them in this position and they didn't believe it was right. There may have been other promises or threats made by the Indy Pass that we're not aware of.

Regardless, both mountains needed to do what's best for their businesses and we respect their decisions. It's tough to believe that the Indy Pass, an organization that claims to support independent mountains, would put two small non-profit ski areas in a position where they needed to give up a revenue stream. We'll always support and do what's best for our partner mountains, and we would welcome Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway back with open arms at any time. We hope our members will still support them this season and in the future.

Ironically, the Indy Pass has been sold out since April. Even if you wanted to buy one right now to support Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway, or any of their other independent resorts, you simply can't.

The No Boundaries Pass is on sale now at a special introductory price of $99. With your pass, you can still ski up to 9 days at three fantastic, independent ski areas: Tenney, Mt. Abram, and Granite Gorge. We're still hoping to add a new partner(s) for this season. The No Boundaries Pass has no black out dates, meaning you can ski any day of the season, but if you avoid peak days the pass rewards you with more skiing.

No Boundaries Passholders are entitled to either:
1 Saturday/holiday lift ticket, OR
1 Sunday and 1 weekday lift ticket, OR
3 weekday lift tickets
at EACH of our three partner mountains: Check out all the details on how the No Boundaries Pass works here.

We've been operating No Boundaries for a decade now. There have been many ups and downs and changes along the way. Our passion has always been to make skiing more accessible to our members, and to introduce you to some great ski areas along the way. We're sorry that the Indy Pass has gotten in the way of that.

Bizarre. Just bizarre.

Dartmouth Skiway and Whaleback have left the No Boundaries Pass, now on sale for $99

Here's the short version:We've lowered the price of the No Boundaries Pass to $99. It now provides up to 3 days of skiing at each of our three partner mountains: Tenney, Mt. Abram, and Granite Gorge. Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway were unexpectedly given an ultimatum by the Indy Pass and forced...

www.skinoboundaries.com

 

[2planks2coasts]

You are seriously faulting Dartmouth here?

Cooper provides zero benefit financially and No Boundaries provided them barely any revenue. You would make the same decision if it was your business.

Yes I am faulting Dartmouth, and no, I wouldn't. I get the financial reason for staying, assuming Dartmouth goes full Indy. But they are no longer an Independent ski area if they let Indy dictate who else they do business with. Indy is NOT a management company. They are a pass product.

 

[Cobbold]

Bizarre. Just bizarre.

Dartmouth Skiway and Whaleback have left the No Boundaries Pass, now on sale for $99

Here's the short version:We've lowered the price of the No Boundaries Pass to $99. It now provides up to 3 days of skiing at each of our three partner mountains: Tenney, Mt. Abram, and Granite Gorge. Whaleback and Dartmouth Skiway were unexpectedly given an ultimatum by the Indy Pass and forced...

www.skinoboundaries.com

I have had an Indy for two years really liked Doug fish, not crazy about how they are acting now,

 

[2planks2coasts]

“we’re thrilled to announce 50+ new resorts for 23/24 including Austria’s largest resort, new Japan destinations, XC resorts, and many more fiercely independent ski areas in North America.”

Austrias largest would be Ski Arlberg ?

Which is already Epic IIRC

 

[cdskier]

“we’re thrilled to announce 50+ new resorts for 23/24 including Austria’s largest resort, new Japan destinations, XC resorts, and many more fiercely independent ski areas in North America.”

Indy needs to stop calling their members "fiercely independent" if they're going to keep telling them how to manage their own operations and who they can and can't partner with...

 

[AdironRider]

Yes I am faulting Dartmouth, and no, I wouldn't. I get the financial reason for staying, assuming Dartmouth goes full Indy. But they are no longer an Independent ski area if they let Indy dictate who else they do business with. Indy is NOT a management company. They are a pass product.

Get outta here they are no longer independent. They just made a decision that makes the most business sense for the mountain.

I find this especially laughable because barely anyone here has ever skied the Skiway in the first place, yet suddenly some have strong opinions about how they should run the place.

 

[Harvey]

send you a message

Very helpful. Thanks.

 

[thebigo]

Get outta here they are no longer independent. They just made a decision that makes the most business sense for the mountain.

I find this especially laughable because barely anyone here has ever skied the Skiway in the first place, yet suddenly some have strong opinions about how they should run the place.

Do you work for the skiway? For those who have not been there, it is a bizarre place. Legit interesting terrain with good coverage served by slow lifts in the middle of nowhere. Maybe a hundred families there one day last year for a race, 10+ hour day, gorgeous lodge but no hot food to be found. Only thing for sale was candy bars and bottled soda. Ended up placing a massive order at the lyme country store.

I stumbled on this story because I have an old friend in the upper valley with a large family. They are a marginal ski family, few days a year, I was going to talk him into the NO BO pass for whaleback/dartmouth and maybe GG but not now.

 

[Smellytele]

Do you work for the skiway? For those who have not been there, it is a bizarre place. Legit interesting terrain with good coverage served by slow lifts in the middle of nowhere. Maybe a hundred families there one day last year for a race, 10+ hour day, gorgeous lodge but no hot food to be found. Only thing for sale was candy bars and bottled soda. Ended up placing a massive order at the lyme country store.

I stumbled on this story because I have an old friend in the upper valley with a large family. They are a marginal ski family, few days a year, I was going to talk him into the NO BO pass for whaleback/dartmouth and maybe GG but not now.

The strangest thing about the skiing there is that a road cuts the ski area in half. One side seems to be closed for racing every time I have gone there.

 

[thebigo]

The strangest thing about the skiing there is that a road cuts the ski area in half. One side seems to be closed for racing every time I have gone there.

Wordens is one of 2 or 3 SG trails in the state, also a heavily used GS trail. Timed that lift at 15 mins last year for 800 vert.

 

[2planks2coasts]

Even Ikon doesn't prohibit non-Alterra owned members from participating in other passes.