Jay Peak bombshell

[Jcb890]

Funny. They have been doing those windholds for years. Granted, Jay gets A LOT of bad weather and wind. And FWIW Sugarbush had a tendency to have a lot of windholds as well.

Wind holds are one thing... when there's actual wind. But, when Jay puts the Tram "on wind hold" sometimes it will coincidentally be on a day with low crowds and like ~10 mph winds. Rarely do you see mountains shut down their most popular lift for an entire day because at one point in the day there was a high wind gust. You'll see it if the day is going to be 30+ MPH sustained all day or something, but Jay seems to keep the Tram on wind hold even when wind isn't there or has passed.

 

[cdskier]

Funny. They have been doing those windholds for years. Granted, Jay gets A LOT of bad weather and wind. And FWIW Sugarbush had a tendency to have a lot of windholds as well.

I can't speak for Jay, but at SB, I'm not about to question their use of windholds. Anytime I've seen SB have a windhold, it has been legitimate. I've been on a lift at SB right before they closed it for a windhold and trust me, it was one of the scariest lift rides ever. And yet when I got back to the base, there was virtually no wind. That wind can be brutal at times in one spot and nothing in another so people tend to think just because there's no wind where they are standing that it can't possibly be windy enough somewhere else to close a lift. SB does seem to have more windholds than some other mountains at times, but each mountain is unique with the way the wind blows and how the lifts are impacted by wind. It is what it is.

 

[fbrissette]

Wind holds are one thing... when there's actual wind. But, when Jay puts the Tram "on wind hold" sometimes it will coincidentally be on a day with low crowds and like ~10 mph winds. Rarely do you see mountains shut down their most popular lift for an entire day because at one point in the day there was a high wind gust. You'll see it if the day is going to be 30+ MPH sustained all day or something, but Jay seems to keep the Tram on wind hold even when wind isn't there or has passed.

I'll first state that I rarely ski on week days with the exception of holiday weeks and pow days. I've skied an average of 45 days per year at Jay Peak over the past 8 years. I'm a big fan of closed lifts since I'm always willing to hike or skins. Wind holds are a drag to most, to me it's an opportunity. I cannot remember a single of those hiking days where the wind wasn't howling on top with lifts on wind hold. In several instances it was mind boggling how bad it is up there compared to the bottom. I have noticed however a few instances where winds significantly decreased in the afternoon and the lift would not reopen. I assume they have some sort of time limit where it does not make economical sense to recall lifties.

I am not saying Jay Peak ain't lying on some low-traffic week days. It's very possible they do. I have not witnessed blatant lying (i.e. wind holds with no wind on top)

 

[mbedle]

I can't speak for Jay, but at SB, I'm not about to question their use of windholds. Anytime I've seen SB have a windhold, it has been legitimate. I've been on a lift at SB right before they closed it for a windhold and trust me, it was one of the scariest lift rides ever. And yet when I got back to the base, there was virtually no wind. That wind can be brutal at times in one spot and nothing in another so people tend to think just because there's no wind where they are standing that it can't possibly be windy enough somewhere else to close a lift. SB does seem to have more windholds than some other mountains at times, but each mountain is unique with the way the wind blows and how the lifts are impacted by wind. It is what it is.

I got to agree with this, unless you are actually taking wind speed measurements 30, 50 or 100 feet up in the air, its not really possible to tell whats going on in the path of a lift or tram.

 

[Jcb890]

I'll first state that I rarely ski on week days with the exception of holiday weeks and pow days. I've skied an average of 45 days per year at Jay Peak over the past 8 years. I'm a big fan of closed lifts since I'm always willing to hike or skins. Wind holds are a drag to most, to me it's an opportunity. I cannot remember a single of those hiking days where the wind wasn't howling on top with lifts on wind hold. In several instances it was mind boggling how bad it is up there compared to the bottom. I have noticed however a few instances where winds significantly decreased in the afternoon and the lift would not reopen. I assume they have some sort of time limit where it does not make economical sense to recall lifties.

I am not saying Jay Peak ain't lying on some low-traffic week days. It's very possible they do. I have not witnessed blatant lying (i.e. wind holds with no wind on top)

Kudos to you, but you are certainly in the minority. Sure, I'll hike if conditions warrant it and I'm in the mood. But, to suggest hiking as an alternate to actually taking a lift that should be running... that's not comparable.

 

[cdskier]

I have noticed however a few instances where winds significantly decreased in the afternoon and the lift would not reopen. I assume they have some sort of time limit where it does not make economical sense to recall lifties.

I know at SB if an upper mountain lift can't be opened by somewhere between 12 and 1, then it will typically stay closed the rest of the day even if the wind dies down. Like you said, there's a point where with the limited amount of hours left in a day it just doesn't make economical (and logistical) sense any more to open the lift.

 

[tumbler]

Funny. They have been doing those windholds for years. Granted, Jay gets A LOT of bad weather and wind. And FWIW Sugarbush had a tendency to have a lot of windholds as well.

Yes, this is true at SB but most of it is in the past. They used to use wind holds to cover for mechanical issues

 

[thetrailboss]

Yes, this is true at SB but most of it is in the past. They used to use wind holds to cover for mechanical issues

Figured it was that and money. It is true that a lot of SB's lifts on the upper mountain are exposed. The same for Jay, but I know that Jay had a tendency not to run lifts when they could.

And in other news: https://vtdigger.org/2017/10/03/state-uscis-dont-shutter-eb-5-center-just-yet/#.WdVhTWhSw2x

 

[Steve@jpr]

I think what he's trying to say is when he has hiked, and with the Tram subsequently down, the nuance of upper mtn winds v lower mtn winds was remarkable. We've talked about this before and I'll say it again, we've never made a decision to shut a lift down predicated on pure economics, not since I've been here at least. I can't imagine a scenario where we would. You're certainly entitled to your opinion and, as such, it's no business of mine.

Kudos to you, but you are certainly in the minority. Sure, I'll hike if conditions warrant it and I'm in the mood. But, to suggest hiking as an alternate to actually taking a lift that should be running... that's not comparable.

 

[Jcb890]

I think what he's trying to say is when he has hiked, and with the Tram subsequently down, the nuance of upper mtn winds v lower mtn winds was remarkable. We've talked about this before and I'll say it again, we've never made a decision to shut a lift down predicated on pure economics, not since I've been here at least. I can't imagine a scenario where we would. You're certainly entitled to your opinion and, as such, it's no business of mine.

Hi Steve,

I really do appreciate your responses and candor, as always. You seem like a stand-up guy and I do not think I have been, but if I have been a dick to you personally at all, I apologize. I really do want Jay to do well and want to go and enjoy it, its just tough sometimes.

 

[VTKilarney]

Regardless of why the lifts get shut down, I appreciate not wanting to take the risk since it happens much more frequently at Jay than other resorts that you can choose. That's just the simple reality of the situation up there.

 

[deadheadskier]

VT resorts sure. Sugarloaf waves Hi as the overall champion of wind holds in New England. Jay is a distant second.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

VT resorts sure. Sugarloaf waves Hi as the overall champion of wind holds in New England. Jay is a distant second.

Most definitely.

 

[Steve@jpr]

Never. I've encountered more than my fair share of them, especially in the last 2 years, but you haven't made any list. All good. I appreciate your perspective as always-just giving you mine.

Hi Steve,

I really do appreciate your responses and candor, as always. You seem like a stand-up guy and I do not think I have been, but if I have been a dick to you personally at all, I apologize. I really do want Jay to do well and want to go and enjoy it, its just tough sometimes.

 

[Jully]

I can't speak for Jay, but at SB, I'm not about to question their use of windholds. Anytime I've seen SB have a windhold, it has been legitimate. I've been on a lift at SB right before they closed it for a windhold and trust me, it was one of the scariest lift rides ever. And yet when I got back to the base, there was virtually no wind. That wind can be brutal at times in one spot and nothing in another so people tend to think just because there's no wind where they are standing that it can't possibly be windy enough somewhere else to close a lift. SB does seem to have more windholds than some other mountains at times, but each mountain is unique with the way the wind blows and how the lifts are impacted by wind. It is what it is.

+1 same thing at sugarloaf. I've been pushed uphill on the summit by wind and its a gorgeous bluebird day at the base lodge with people kicking it on the beach.

 

[mister moose]

Here's a handy way to gauge how windy it's going to be. These are aviation winds aloft forecasts. The first two digits are the wind direction (degrees true to nearest 10) The second two digits is the wind speed in knots (15% higher than MPH) The third 2 digits are the forecast temperature (degrees C)

The nearest station to any northern VT ski area is PLB, or Plattsburg, NY.

So right now, looking at PLB, about halfway down the page, at 6,000 feet you see the winds are 2825+03
This means the winds are 280 degrees (almost due west) at 25 knots (29mph) with a temp of 3C (37F)

You can also look at ALB, which is Albany, NY. More of a factor for Mt Snow and Stratton.


https://www.aviationweather.gov/windtemp/data?region=bos

There is a drop down menu at the top for which time period you want to look at. It's in UTC, or Greenwich time, which is indicated by a Z after the time, 24 hour military style. In the winter we are on standard time which is 5 hours earier, so 14Z is 0900 local time.

Obviously Jay Peak is not at 6,000 feet, so a little interpolation is needed. You can average the winds at 3 and 6. Also, take a look at how steep the gradient is, ie how much faster the winds are at 9 and 12. When winds at higher altitudes are really racing, they generate vertical shear type turbulence, and these produce the gusts we've all felt. Very little gradient = very little gusts.

Last disclaimer is the muddling the mountains do to the averages. This is a guide, not a guarantee.

So if the Tram is down for wind holds and the winds aloft are 10kts, give Steve a call. If they're 50 kts, expect the Tram to be dicey.

Notice the temp at 12,000 feet is -03C, or 26.5F. If we had the elevation of the Rockies we could be making snow right now!

 

[machski]

Here's a handy way to gauge how windy it's going to be. These are aviation winds aloft forecasts. The first two digits are the wind direction (degrees true to nearest 10) The second two digits is the wind speed in knots (15% higher than MPH) The third 2 digits are the forecast temperature (degrees C)

The nearest station to any northern VT ski area is PLB, or Plattsburg, NY.

So right now, looking at PLB, about halfway down the page, at 6,000 feet you see the winds are 2825+03
This means the winds are 280 degrees (almost due west) at 25 knots (29mph) with a temp of 3C (37F)

You can also look at ALB, which is Albany, NY. More of a factor for Mt Snow and Stratton.


https://www.aviationweather.gov/windtemp/data?region=bos

There is a drop down menu at the top for which time period you want to look at. It's in UTC, or Greenwich time, which is indicated by a Z after the time, 24 hour military style. In the winter we are on standard time which is 5 hours earier, so 14Z is 0900 local time.

Obviously Jay Peak is not at 6,000 feet, so a little interpolation is needed. You can average the winds at 3 and 6. Also, take a look at how steep the gradient is, ie how much faster the winds are at 9 and 12. When winds at higher altitudes are really racing, they generate vertical shear type turbulence, and these produce the gusts we've all felt. Very little gradient = very little gusts.

Last disclaimer is the muddling the mountains do to the averages. This is a guide, not a guarantee.

So if the Tram is down for wind holds and the winds aloft are 10kts, give Steve a call. If they're 50 kts, expect the Tram to be dicey.

Notice the temp at 12,000 feet is -03C, or 26.5F. If we had the elevation of the Rockies we could be making snow right now!

For bonus points, decode this one. 7823-06

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[thetrailboss]

http://www.wcax.com/content/news/Ca...s-be-sued-over-the-Kingdom-Con-450318273.html

I agree with this:

"The state promised to administer, manage, oversee the federal and state requirements of this program," Barr said. "And they did none of that."

But not this:

But Vermont Attorney General T.J. Donovan says that suit should be tossed.

"This is a wild goose chase. This is a waste of resources. Let us focus on the case that really matters and that is the state's case against Bill Stenger and Ariel Quiros," said Donovan, D-Vt. Attorney General.

Again, cue up the Shumlin video with him bragging about how Vermont "audits" projects.

 

[Not Sure]

For bonus points, decode this one. 7823-06

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app

Park forecast 780 23kts -6

 

[machski]

Park forecast 780 23kts -6

Nice try, this is how it is coded when wind speeds are 100+ kts. subtract 50 to get the direction (78-50=28(0)) and add 100 for the speed (100+23=123kts).