Jay Peak bombshell

[Smellytele]

http://www.wcax.com/content/news/Sc...of-Jay-Peak-recreation-center--474054513.html

Interesting article about the sale of Jay - recent investments no doubt make it more enticing. Not much new info, but a good/quick read/listen nonetheless. Unfortunately no mention or insight on Burke though.

"dozens of potential buyers, nationally and internationally, have already shown up to take a look." - Please God let it not be Vail....

Boyne or whomever owns Loon/Sunday River/ Sugarloaf?

 

[VTKilarney]

What would happen to Burke Academy if Burke was gone?

Burke Mountain Academy will always make sure that the training hill is available for their students.

 

[Zand]

Burke Mountain Academy will always make sure that the training hill is available for their students.

Maybe shiffrin can buy it with all the endorsements she gets.

 

[from_the_NEK]

What would happen to Burke Academy if Burke was gone?

A: They operate their own scaled down operation of just Warren's Way, the T-Bar and maybe the Dippers.
- In order to keep the Dippers in play, they would have to add another surface lift from the top of the T-bar to the summit.

B: The school goes under with the mountain and the Stratton Mtn School and Carrabassett Valley Academy pick up the slack.

 

[VTKilarney]

A: They operate their own scaled down operation of just Warren's Way, the T-Bar and maybe the Dippers.
- In order to keep the Dippers in play, they would have to add another surface lift from the top of the T-bar to the summit.

B: The school goes under with the mountain and the Stratton Mtn School and Carrabassett Valley Academy pick up the slack.

C: They move their operation to Cannon.

 

[Edd]

Boyne or whomever owns Loon/Sunday River/ Sugarloaf?

I’m skeptical of that but it would be an interesting addition to the New England pass. Being an hour north of Loon, some may go to escape the shitshow there. I’m confident it would bring a bunch of new skiers to Burke but would it be enough is the question.

Ironically, Burke would do better if the competition were a bit closer. Picture Jay and Cannon being 20 minutes from there instead of 60-ish.

Also, I’ve said this before but Burke needs some major marketing $. I bet most people in New England don’t even know it exists.

 

[mbedle]

I am assuming it was a misquote, but did I read correctly in the first article that the investors now own everything at the mountains? Can't be correct, but if so, what are the actually selling when these go on the market? The resort operations only (like Vail-Stowe), the resort operations and the general partnerships or everything, including buying out all of the LPs (which I am guessing is not the case, since that would be a huge loss for investors)? I can't really understand exactly how this is all going to play out as far as a real estate deal. Even with the SEC settlement, I got to believe that this is going to be a very difficult sale to make with the EB-5 all tied into it.

 

[VTKilarney]

I am assuming it was a misquote, but did I read correctly in the first article that the investors now own everything at the mountains? .

This has to do with the history of the investments. The investors were led to believe that they would have an equity interest in their project. For example, the Tram Haus investors would own actual units that they could sell on the open market at some point in the future. They were told this to make them believe that their risk was low.

And then things were changed. Quiros and/or Stenger removed (or never gave?) the investors an equity interest. If memory serves me correctly, the investors were made unsecured creditors. After quite a bit of backlash, I believe that they may have been given an equity interest in the ski area itself, but not the brand new properties that were built. In other words, they were part owners of aging lifts rather than brand new condos and hotel rooms.

It appears that the receiver has rectified this so that the investors got what they believed they were getting, and perhaps even moreso. If so, good for the receiver.

This is from memory, so feel free to correct me if I got something wrong.

 

[Smellytele]

This has to do with the history of the investments. The investors were led to believe that they would have an equity interest in their project. For example, the Tram Haus investors would own actual units that they could sell on the open market at some point in the future. They were told this to make them believe that their risk was low.

And then things were changed. Quiros and/or Stenger removed (or never gave?) the investors an equity interest. If memory serves me correctly, the investors were made unsecured creditors. After quite a bit of backlash, I believe that they may have been given an equity interest in the ski area itself, but not the brand new properties that were built. In other words, they were part owners of aging lifts rather than brand new condos and hotel rooms.

It appears that the receiver has rectified this so that the investors got what they believed they were getting, and perhaps even moreso. If so, good for the receiver.

This is from memory, so feel free to correct me if I got something wrong.

What the article said is before they did not own any of the ski area just what they invested in (tram house. state side, water park or what ever) now they have a stake in the whole ski area and the other stuff. When it is sold they will get a share in what it is all sold for.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

did I read correctly in the first article that the investors now own everything at the mountains?

From the Burlington Press: "The SEC's final judgment against Quiros orders 17 properties, including the Jay Peak and Burke Mountain ski resorts and two New York City condominiums, and about $417,000 in frozen cash, to be turned over to federal receiver Michael Goldberg to satisfy the $81.3 million Quiros owes. Goldberg plans to sell the properties for the benefit of defrauded investors."

It seems like the proceeds from the sale will be used to pay back those who were either promised returns on investments, and/or those who did not benefit from the EB-5 program. I read somewhere else that there was a slew of people who were expecting citizenship, but are now hanging in limbo.

Seems to me that its a full package for sale, land/buildings/lifts/equipment/operations/etc. - Resort Operations must be included/built into the price of the overall land deal. But then again, I don't know much about these types of deals....

 

[mbedle]

This has to do with the history of the investments. The investors were led to believe that they would have an equity interest in their project. For example, the Tram Haus investors would own actual units that they could sell on the open market at some point in the future. They were told this to make them believe that their risk was low.

And then things were changed. Quiros and/or Stenger removed (or never gave?) the investors an equity interest. If memory serves me correctly, the investors were made unsecured creditors. After quite a bit of backlash, I believe that they may have been given an equity interest in the ski area itself, but not the brand new properties that were built. In other words, they were part owners of aging lifts rather than brand new condos and hotel rooms.

It appears that the receiver has rectified this so that the investors got what they believed they were getting, and perhaps even moreso. If so, good for the receiver.

This is from memory, so feel free to correct me if I got something wrong.

I forgot about that, but I think that only happened on the Phase I investors. And that just adds to the confusion / issues that any potential buyer has to deal with. I think were I am getting stuck is the money from the sale of these resorts does not come even close to the investments. As such, I got to believe that most of the investors (maybe excluding Phase I) will still have some type of equity stack in the resorts.

 

[VTKilarney]

but I think that only happened on the Phase I investors.

That may very well be true. The articles that I have seen refer to the Tram Haus investors, who I believe were the Phase I investors.

 

[mbedle]

From the Burlington Press: "The SEC's final judgment against Quiros orders 17 properties, including the Jay Peak and Burke Mountain ski resorts and two New York City condominiums, and about $417,000 in frozen cash, to be turned over to federal receiver Michael Goldberg to satisfy the $81.3 million Quiros owes. Goldberg plans to sell the properties for the benefit of defrauded investors."

It seems like the proceeds from the sale will be used to pay back those who were either promised returns on investments, and/or those who did not benefit from the EB-5 program. I read somewhere else that there was a slew of people who were expecting citizenship, but are now hanging in limbo.

Seems to me that its a full package for sale, land/buildings/lifts/equipment/operations/etc. - Resort Operations must be included/built into the price of the overall land deal. But then again, I don't know much about these types of deals....

I was looking at this quote:

Goldberg plans to market the properties together as early as May, and he expects to sell the two resorts before the next ski season. The settlement, he says, clears the titles for the hotel at Burke Mountain, and the hotel complexes, condos, water park and other amenities at Jay Peak Resort. In addition, the investors now own Jay Peak and Burke mountains and the ski operations.

So with that said, even if they sold both places for 100 million (pulled out of nowhere!), that is not even close to the amount of money LPs have invested in these resorts. I don't know the exact numbers (since some have taken their money back) but lets say there are still 500 LPs involved in both resorts, that would mean that both resorts would have to sell for 250 million and that is just to return their $500,000 initial investment. I don't see that happening.

 

[bdfreetuna]

So I was at Stowe today and the lady selling tickets was talking about Jay Peak being up for sale and she was hoping Vail was going to buy Jay and said she thought there was a decent chance.

I told her I have reservations about Vail doing a rapid expansion especially when it involves my preferred ski areas. Then again, I have no complaints about their management. I think I actually got better service and higher quality experience at Stowe today than ever before; then again it was totally empty, the shitters better be clean.

 

[VTKilarney]

I'm rooting for Alterra to buy Jay and for Omni to buy Burke.

I'm not sure if the hotel at Burke is up to Omni's standards, but one can always hope.

 

[JimG.]

the shitters better be clean.

Crude...especially for someone so sensitive about the lord's name.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Crude...especially for someone so sensitive about the lord's name.

idk you might have missed the joke on that one

The Apostle Paul used the word "shit", not that I think I compare favorably to him.

 

[Domeskier]

The Apostle Paul used the word "shit", not that I think I compare favorably to him.

I've heard his English was excellent.

 

[Edd]

The Apostle Paul used the word "shit", not that I think I compare favorably to him.

I've heard his English was excellent.

He probably exclaimed “Jesus!” quite often.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Probably not that often unless in prayer since Paul was converted after Jesus died/rose again. They weren't hanging around together.

I dunno, you guys want to talk about religion on here? I thought this was a skiing forum.