Jay Peak bombshell

[ScottySkis]

So here's the list of Jay Peak tire-kickers from VTDigger:

Alterra
A Communist Chinese oligarch
Pacific Group
Och-Ziff
AWH Partners


I still think Alterra is the most logical choice for a whole host of reasons.

I hear the owner of the best ski snowboard hill in the Catskills is 1 of the bidders for Jay����������������

 

[mbedle]

So here's the list of Jay Peak tire-kickers from VTDigger:

Alterra
A Communist Chinese oligarch
Pacific Group
Och-Ziff
AWH Partners


I still think Alterra is the most logical choice for a whole host of reasons.

I laugh to think that one day Jay Peak will be a Club Med property.... lol
It's possible that they could split Jay Peak up like Stowe did, with Fosun/Club Med operating the hotels, water park and golf course and some other company taking over the ski operations.

 

[thetrailboss]

I laugh to think that one day Jay Peak will be a Club Med property.... lol
It's possible that they could split Jay Peak up like Stowe did, with Fosun/Club Med operating the hotels, water park and golf course and some other company taking over the ski operations.

Club Med. How funny. :lol:

 

[thetrailboss]

So today's news is that the State Auditor's investigation and report as to the EB-5 scandal is [conveniently] delayed due to the pending criminal matter. Normally I would agree that this is the right thing to do, but here the delay only will further erode any remaining confidence/trust in the State.

https://vtdigger.org/2019/09/10/cri...il&utm_term=0_dc3c5486db-653d3235bf-405558657

And as to any realistic chance that he gets to "interview" any of these folks, or that said interviews are at all substantive, I say good luck.

Hoffer said among the officials he would like to question include Lawrence Miller and Patricia Moulton, both who served as Agency of Commerce and Community Development secretaries under former Gov. Peter Shumlin.

Also, he said, he would also like to interview former heads of the Vermont EB-5 Regional Center, including Brent Raymond.

 

[ScottySkis]

Club Platy

 

[BenedictGomez]

The problem is Vermont is a state virtually unilaterally run by Democrats, and whichever "new" Democrats come into power are going to obfuscate & protect the Democrats both currently in & out of power who are knee-deep in this scandal, up & down the line.

IMO, a full Federal investigation of State of Vermont is the only way justice can be done here.

And yes, PLEASE do "interview" Brent Raymond, and by "interview", I mean subpoena.

EDIT: And it should be noted that the judge who "threw out" the lawsuit accusing State of Vermont of being complicit in this scandal was appointed by Shumlin, who's also knee deep in this scandal. Of course.

 

[AdironRider]

You want them to investigate and basically indict an entire state?

I'm not that liberal but come on man, that seems a bit over the top.

I think there is a distinct difference between the State missing a coverup/scam during an audit (I mean it was a scam after all by Quiros, he had to cover some shit up at the very least) and aiding and abetting in financial crimes. The state of VT was after all incentivized to have this project succeed and wasn't exactly some independent neutral party auditor.

 

[BenedictGomez]

You want them to investigate and basically indict an entire state?

I'm not that liberal but come on man, that seems a bit over the top.

I think there is a distinct difference between the State missing a coverup/scam during an audit (I mean it was a scam after all by Quiros, he had to cover some shit up at the very least) and aiding and abetting in financial crimes. The state of VT was after all incentivized to have this project succeed and wasn't exactly some independent neutral party auditor.

There was no audit; so yes, State of Vermont aided & abetted this financial crime.

I refuse to believe the current explanation, which is essentially that State of Vermont is a bunch of uneducated, wheat-chewing farmers who are too stupid to not be duped by the international genius criminal mastermind of Ariel Quiros. That's a load of crap.

State of Vermont knew this was dirty & did nothing about it to keep the $$$$$ flowing & protect certain politicians, which is why there are "missing" emails & run-arounds at every attempt to investigate State of Vermont.

 

[1dog]

Aemn to your sentiments BG - central control reaally never works. And place on top of that using $$ you didn't 'earn' via tax confiscation - just look at many state ( or federal for that matter) 'investments' - RI with Curt Shiller game company - $75M - any solar or wind scheme - elected officials anre not investors. Private money can win/loose - they earned it, they can gamble it. People still can let their state do it - I'm all for states rights to compete but just remember - its not $$ they 'earned'. R I S K.

Illustration - its reported ( Barrons) that Elon has recieved $5.5B in government subsides. Average Tesla owner who gets $8K-$10K in fed and state subs avergaes over $500K per year in income.
Let the private mieny take the risk and let them keep more of their reward - they will turn around and re-invest it. Money outy of service earns squat.

There was no audit; so yes, State of Vermont aided & abetted this financial crime.

I refuse to believe the current explanation, which is essentially that State of Vermont is a bunch of uneducated, wheat-chewing farmers who are too stupid to not be duped by the international genius criminal mastermind of Ariel Quiros. That's a load of crap.

State of Vermont knew this was dirty & did nothing about it to keep the $$$$$ flowing & protect certain politicians, which is why there are "missing" emails & run-arounds at every attempt to investigate State of Vermont.

 

[thetrailboss]

You want them to investigate and basically indict an entire state?

I'm not that liberal but come on man, that seems a bit over the top.

I think there is a distinct difference between the State missing a coverup/scam during an audit (I mean it was a scam after all by Quiros, he had to cover some shit up at the very least) and aiding and abetting in financial crimes. The state of VT was after all incentivized to have this project succeed and wasn't exactly some independent neutral party auditor.

I think you need to look into this a bit more. There is video of the Governor bragging about how the Vermont EB-5 program was the only "audited one" in the country. Guess what? They did not audit these projects at all.

 

[DoublePlanker]

Aemn to your sentiments BG - central control reaally never works. And place on top of that using $$ you didn't 'earn' via tax confiscation - just look at many state ( or federal for that matter) 'investments' - RI with Curt Shiller game company - $75M - any solar or wind scheme - elected officials anre not investors. Private money can win/loose - they earned it, they can gamble it. People still can let their state do it - I'm all for states rights to compete but just remember - its not $$ they 'earned'. R I S K.

Illustration - its reported ( Barrons) that Elon has recieved $5.5B in government subsides. Average Tesla owner who gets $8K-$10K in fed and state subs avergaes over $500K per year in income.
Let the private mieny take the risk and let them keep more of their reward - they will turn around and re-invest it. Money outy of service earns squat.

T
Elon Musk is in favor of eliminating subsidies. Let's not forget the MASSIVE subsidies for oil and gas. Capitalist regimes use money to promote business, give tax breaks to companies that provide jobs, etc. That's what we do. Republican or Democrat.

 

[1dog]

T
Elon Musk is in favor of eliminating subsidies. Let's not forget the MASSIVE subsidies for oil and gas. Capitalist regimes use money to promote business, give tax breaks to companies that provide jobs, etc. That's what we do. Republican or Democrat.

Of course he is - now that he got his. I am too. But some other 'subsides' actually produce tax revenue far in excess of the said subsidy.



And as always, pols generalize and no one fact checks them - part of oil and gas subsidies are military patrolling the seas of the Middle East to allow safe passage to energy companies - otherwise held hostage - see todays news actually.

Here's a source of relative truth: https://www.forbes.com/sites/drilli...about-federal-oil-gas-subsidies/#e5985c66e1cd

For ski areas to exist they need recurring revenue like any business - and the regulatory climb gets larger and larger, passed on to the customer of ski areas and real estate owners. Always been a rather elite sport, but feeder hills that jump start cant rely on real estate - they are critical in growing ( or in this case - at least keeping level - skier day growth)

Bottom line again is risk - individuals and private companies/equity firms/etc. can risk and there is little effect on public dollars. Infrastructer maintaining is a far better investment.

 

[BenedictGomez]

T
Let's not forget the MASSIVE subsidies for oil and gas.

FYI, though oft-repeated, this is largely propaganda, and doesn't remotely mean what you think it means. Dont just believe me, LOOK INTO IT and investigate if for yourself. After you've done so, perhaps ask yourself why politicians repeatedly lie to you about this. Hell, this is so economically annoying to constantly hear I almost wish they'd just do away with these "MASSIVE subsidies"; yes the price of a gallon of gas would probably go up 1¢ or 2¢ or 5¢ nationwide if they do, but it might almost be worth it to never hear this again. LOL


EDIT: And I'm guessing you're also not aware that the government actually makes more money off every gallon of gas pumped into your car than Exxon Mobile or Shell does (yes, really). Because that's fair.

 

[Jully]

EDIT: And I'm guessing you're also not aware that the government actually makes more money off every gallon of gas pumped into your car than Exxon Mobile or Shell does (yes, really). Because that's fair.

Eh... don't most gas taxes go towards road upkeep and other transportation related costs? I'm fine with taxing it that way rather than a different source of road upkeep revenue, even if this is slightly regressive in nature.

Exxon isn't exactly struggling to make money, so I'm not too concerned about who makes "more" off gas sales.

 

[1dog]

FYI, though oft-repeated, this is largely propaganda, and doesn't remotely mean what you think it means. Dont just believe me, LOOK INTO IT and investigate if for yourself. After you've done so, perhaps ask yourself why politicians repeatedly lie to you about this. Hell, this is so economically annoying to constantly hear I almost wish they'd just do away with these "MASSIVE subsidies"; yes the price of a gallon of gas would probably go up 1¢ or 2¢ or 5¢ nationwide if they do, but it might almost be worth it to never hear this again. LOL


EDIT: And I'm guessing you're also not aware that the government actually makes more money off every gallon of gas pumped into your car than Exxon Mobile or Shell does (yes, really). Because that's fair.

Yet another 'Amen' ( and spelled correctly this time too)

same with cigarettes and probably booze - certainly gambling. . . .do I detect a pattern here?

BG anytime you want to ski Mad River Valley . . . . . . .

 

[BenedictGomez]

Eh... don't most gas taxes go towards road upkeep and other transportation related costs?

It wouldn't matter if the money went towards creating the world's largest wind-powered emu farm, just the fact that the government gets more money from a gallon of gas than the oil company that soup-to-nuts labored over it, is the point that should be shocking enough.

Anyway, back to this being the Jay Peak thread.

 

[cdskier]

Eh... don't most gas taxes go towards road upkeep and other transportation related costs? I'm fine with taxing it that way rather than a different source of road upkeep revenue, even if this is slightly regressive in nature.

In NJ a few years ago we had a big "fight" over raising gas taxes to cover our "Transportation Trust Fund". During the political fight a lot of "transportation" projects were put on hold and at one point a list of all the projects that were put on hold was released. It was quite an interesting read to see everything that was paid for by that fund. There were many things that had nothing to do with road or transportation infrastructure upkeep as people commonly assume (i.e. replacement of PHOTOCOPIERS in NJ Transit's offices costing $14M).

 

[cdskier]

Eh... don't most gas taxes go towards road upkeep and other transportation related costs? I'm fine with taxing it that way rather than a different source of road upkeep revenue, even if this is slightly regressive in nature.

LOL. As soon as I saw this article tonight I thought of this question. Talk about timing...
https://www.nj.com/cape-may-county/...rphy-vetoed-money-to-fix-it-sweeney-says.html

Hopefully the feds and other states aren't quite as idiotic as NJ with how they spend their "transportation" and "gas tax" revenues, but even so I still wouldn't assume that all the money actually goes towards transportation related costs.

 

[mbedle]

FYI, though oft-repeated, this is largely propaganda, and doesn't remotely mean what you think it means. Dont just believe me, LOOK INTO IT and investigate if for yourself. After you've done so, perhaps ask yourself why politicians repeatedly lie to you about this. Hell, this is so economically annoying to constantly hear I almost wish they'd just do away with these "MASSIVE subsidies"; yes the price of a gallon of gas would probably go up 1¢ or 2¢ or 5¢ nationwide if they do, but it might almost be worth it to never hear this again. LOL


EDIT: And I'm guessing you're also not aware that the government actually makes more money off every gallon of gas pumped into your car than Exxon Mobile or Shell does (yes, really). Because that's fair.

Are you saying that the taxes on a gallon of gasoline are higher than what a refiner and crude producer get from a gallon of gasoline?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Are you saying that the taxes on a gallon of gasoline are higher than what a refiner and crude producer get from a gallon of gasoline?

Correct. Much higher.

Obviously this will vary by state & vary with the price of oil, but generally speaking the government makes about 6x to 8x more than the oil company does on every gallon of gas pumped into your gas tank.

Yet how many people actually know this? I'd guess maybe 1 in 50.