Killington 2016-7: It's On!

[mbedle]

Today is operating day 28 for Killington. They will have a full 30 day head start on everyone else in the Northeast when others open on Wednesday. Hopefully they've made some money during this time!

I would venture to say that they absolutely did not make any money over the last 30 days, but always good marketing!

 

[dlague]

I would venture to say that they absolutely did not make any money over the last 30 days, but always good marketing!

+1

Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[cdskier]

I would venture to say that they absolutely did not make any money over the last 30 days, but always good marketing!

Perhaps a better way to say it would be "did they make more than they would have if they chose to not open at all"? While maybe there is a net loss right now, some of their expenses would have been incurred no matter whether they opened or not (i.e. snowmaking). And if they chose not to open and lost their "Beast" advantage, would that ultimately hurt their brand image and eventually overall season bottom line?

 

[dlague]

Perhaps a better way to say it would be "did they make more than they would have if they chose to not open at all"? While maybe there is a net loss right now, some of their expenses would have been incurred no matter whether they opened or not (i.e. snowmaking). And if they chose not to open and lost their "Beast" advantage, would that ultimately hurt their brand image and eventually overall season bottom line?

Hence more of a marketing ploy than a revenue opportunity.

Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[mbedle]

Perhaps a better way to say it would be "did they make more than they would have if they chose to not open at all"? While maybe there is a net loss right now, some of their expenses would have been incurred no matter whether they opened or not (i.e. snowmaking). And if they chose not to open and lost their "Beast" advantage, would that ultimately hurt their brand image and eventually overall season bottom line?

I'm still going to say no, even if you remove the snowmaking cost. As far as the marketing value, yes I would hope they have determined that by opening earlier, it increases their overall revenue during a given season. From an outside perceptive, I also think them opening early actually helps all ski resorts. It gets people talking and thinking about skiing either at Killington or another resort.

 

[cdskier]

Hence more of a marketing ploy than a revenue opportunity.

Not really...more of a marketing ploy that results in a net gain in revenue by the time everything is said and done (I would hope). You can't look at it purely as "how much did we make this month" to justify it. Does the resulting revenue gain during the rest of the season from this "marketing ploy" offset the additional loss incurred from operating early season? I say it has to otherwise why do it? They are a business after all.

 

[Smellytele]

Not really...more of a marketing ploy that results in a net gain in revenue by the time everything is said and done (I would hope). You can't look at it purely as "how much did we make this month" to justify it. Does the resulting revenue gain during the rest of the season from this "marketing ploy" offset the additional loss incurred from operating early season? I say it has to otherwise why do it? They are a business after all.

How do you measure the "resulting revenue gain during the rest of the season from this "marketing ploy""

 

[da pimp]

I think everyone underestimates the quantity of window sales for early turns. Especially this weekend, which saw a lot of race teams going up both days. The % of racers to non-racers was the biggest so far this year, I would estimate 20% was race teams of all ages. One estimate I heard of daily attendance this weekend was 1,500 per day. No matter how you shake it out, there is a lot of cash exchanging hands at the ticket window and the two lodges that were open and serving. Since that terrain needs to have a snowmaking investment anyways, whatever they pull in is gravy PLUS the marketing and public relations hype. It certainly does matter when people in the flatlands hear that Killington was open for skiing on Oct. 25 and continued straight through to Thanksgiving. Everyone sees the snow in their backyards today and feels that this season is the one to make the effort to get out there. Where do you think they will be making plans for going - the beast with the most trails, most snowmaking, most options for the bucks you will be spending. Or the rest of the pack that gets barely open a month later. A clear advantage over the competition, who has very similar weather conditions but chooses to lay low.

 

[dlague]

I think everyone underestimates the quantity of window sales for early turns. Especially this weekend, which saw a lot of race teams going up both days. The % of racers to non-racers was the biggest so far this year, I would estimate 20% was race teams of all ages. One estimate I heard of daily attendance this weekend was 1,500 per day. No matter how you shake it out, there is a lot of cash exchanging hands at the ticket window and the two lodges that were open and serving. Since that terrain needs to have a snowmaking investment anyways, whatever they pull in is gravy PLUS the marketing and public relations hype. It certainly does matter when people in the flatlands hear that Killington was open for skiing on Oct. 25 and continued straight through to Thanksgiving. Everyone sees the snow in their backyards today and feels that this season is the one to make the effort to get out there. Where do you think they will be making plans for going - the beast with the most trails, most snowmaking, most options for the bucks you will be spending. Or the rest of the pack that gets barely open a month later. A clear advantage over the competition, who has very similar weather conditions but chooses to lay low.

This is true Loveland makes a lot on race teams from day one, where as I do not recall race teams at Killington when just North Ridge was open. Then again I think this is one of the longest periods where terrain was not expanded past North Ridge IIRC.

Not really...more of a marketing ploy that results in a net gain in revenue by the time everything is said and done (I would hope). You can't look at it purely as "how much did we make this month" to justify it. Does the resulting revenue gain during the rest of the season from this "marketing ploy" offset the additional loss incurred from operating early season? I say it has to otherwise why do it? They are a business after all.

Then all marketing is revenue generation. Marketing is designed in nature to create awareness. Measuring how much revenue is gained by any marketing program or ploy is very difficult. If they would have opened two weeks later the effect would be the same.

Sent from my SM-G930P using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[180]

KMS had 70 in the race camps this weekend.

 

[cdskier]

Then all marketing is revenue generation. Marketing is designed in nature to create awareness. Measuring how much revenue is gained by any marketing program or ploy is very difficult. If they would have opened two weeks later the effect would be the same.

Fair point about marketing in general. I suppose I was thinking in my head as comparing it more to a marketing gimmick like turning on the guns for a couple hours to say "look, we made snow!".

Weren't there a few years that K didn't seem to make a legitimate push for opening as early as possible? And weren't there complaints from pass holders? If so, there could have been a legitimately visible drop off in pass sales as a result. Would opening 2 weeks later this year have made a difference? Tough to say, but I think if there were cold temps and they didn't "try" to open it would have been perceived negatively by some of the K die-hards and could ultimately have hurt their bottom line in the long run. I'd like to think that K management isn't given free reign to do whatever they want with no regards for financial implications. If they believe their "longest season in the east" strategy is what results in the greatest net profit, then they've decided that opening as early as realistically possible is a good ROI and a core part of that strategy.

 

[Smellytele]

I think everyone underestimates the quantity of window sales for early turns. Especially this weekend, which saw a lot of race teams going up both days. The % of racers to non-racers was the biggest so far this year, I would estimate 20% was race teams of all ages. One estimate I heard of daily attendance this weekend was 1,500 per day. No matter how you shake it out, there is a lot of cash exchanging hands at the ticket window and the two lodges that were open and serving. Since that terrain needs to have a snowmaking investment anyways, whatever they pull in is gravy PLUS the marketing and public relations hype. It certainly does matter when people in the flatlands hear that Killington was open for skiing on Oct. 25 and continued straight through to Thanksgiving. Everyone sees the snow in their backyards today and feels that this season is the one to make the effort to get out there. Where do you think they will be making plans for going - the beast with the most trails, most snowmaking, most options for the bucks you will be spending. Or the rest of the pack that gets barely open a month later. A clear advantage over the competition, who has very similar weather conditions but chooses to lay low.

There was some sort of racing clinic by some group as well. Can't remember the name but the people running it had orange lettering on their jacks. There were race teams from Thunder ridge, tomahawk and other NY and CT ski areas. they were not very high end though and seemed low skilled. Also saw some racers from Bates college.
Some of the drills they were doing were not very conducive to having only 2 trails open. The follow the leader snaking down the trail for one.

 

[da pimp]

The difference maker for this winter startup is that Killington opened in October, stayed open, had two 10" snowfalls to date, and no one else in New England is operating. The October and continuous operation factoids are what generates the buzz around skiers who know, and all the potential customers who are talking about this in their ski clubs, at places of work, or bars/restaurants. It makes the positive spin that ends up as future sales later in the season.

I would guarantee that if Killington waited until now to open, the buzz around their New England customer base would be a "wait and see" mindset. After such a dismal winter, people will move towards whatever is out there to grab on to. You can keep the lights off and let your customer base lean towards spending their money on other activities, or you can pump up the volume, turn on the lights and attract customers during this critical period when people are making plans or gathering momentum with friends & family to make winter plans.

If you wait a few weeks or a month, it just sucks more air out of your balloon and you have to spend more time & effort just to catch up, which you will never do.

Based on Killington hype released for Thanksgiving, it looks like there will be sliding in the upper Ridge Run area, Snowdon Mountain with a couple of choices, Ram's Head for families/beginners, and maybe Snowshed for the Grand Summit people to ski home. And I saw the snowmakers doing function checks on pipes & hoses for Lower East Fall, and the Canyon Quad was spinning and being cleaned off. They are making something attractive for every level and type of customer.

Once the World Cup leaves next week, there will be a lot of terrain and facilities open for the beginning of December. Way ahead of everyone else. Early season efforts and dollars spent pays off big time for all the departments now and later.

 

[SIKSKIER]

- The Beast is now open top to bottom.

 

[Smellytele]

- The Beast is now open top to bottom.

And the price is now up to $81 from 55

 

[cdskier]

And the price is now up to $81 from 55

I think most early season prices in general are ridiculous...but perhaps it is a "supply and demand" type of thing or done more to try to help prevent the areas from getting too crowded if the prices were set too low.

 

[mriceyman]

I think most early season prices in general are ridiculous...but perhaps it is a "supply and demand" type of thing or done more to try to help prevent the areas from getting too crowded if the prices were set too low.

And a 100$ for a regular day pass isn't ridiculous. Its the sport we love but thankfully most resorts dont make it too hard to save a couple bucks on a ticket


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[cdskier]

And a 100$ for a regular day pass isn't ridiculous. Its the sport we love but thankfully most resorts dont make it too hard to save a couple bucks on a ticket

Oh it absolutely is and I've made numerous posts on that topic before about how I think those high prices are hurting the potential for newcomers and growth in the sport.

 

[catsup948]

I probably know the answer to this but will Killington be super crowded on Friday?

Sent from my VS985 4G using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[andrec10]

I probably know the answer to this but will Killington be super crowded on Friday?

Sent from my VS985 4G using AlpineZone mobile app

Probably since I will be there. Human slalom time! Though a lot of other places open Friday, so lets cross our fingers!