Killington Open Until May 2

[RootDKJ]

I spoke with Chris Nyberg on Saturday and specifically asked him why they are closing on May 2 (Saturday) instead of May 3 (Sunday) and his response was that May 3 starts a new pay period. The accountants are ruling here.

BTW, if any of you want to read more about our conversation go to this link:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26312

Interesting read...

I can almost but the DLC/BYOB bit...Let's just say for the sake of argument that BYOB is a threat to K's liquor license. If they REALLY wanted to throw a party, why couldn't they offer up dollar drafts (or what ever the break even cost is)? Maybe sell bottles at the normal markup? $2 shots of jungle juice and advertise heavilyabout bmmc and the cheap booze. That will bring some of the party back to the mountain.

 

[Rogman]

Vacation? They're gonna have a swell time. Where are they going this year? POWDR renting a cruise ship for the month?

The people I know who work for the mountain could kinda use the money. They used to be full time employees with benefits. They now do the same or more work as *cough* part time *cough* workers with no benefits.

For the record, the word "vacation" was a bad choice of words on my part, not a quote of what Tom actually said. He was honest and open.

 

[2knees]

why is the thread on kzone about nyberg emailing the guys employer locked? didnt shortski have posters made up proclaiming Nyberg "Wanted: Dead or Alive"? seems like a huuuuge double standard on his part.

if nyberg actually stooped that low, i'm speechless.

 

[Vortex]

I think you are completely uninformed on this topic....

First, Killington is going to operate nothing but Superstar after 4/12, not 4/19.

Second, Killington historically sold tons of day tickets and spring season passes after all the other resorts closed. On a typical Saturday, you'd see several hundred Canadian plates. A solid 50% of the people were on day tickets and an awful lot were on $249.00 spring passes.

I was that late season pass crowd.

 

[Rogman]

why is the thread on kzone about nyberg emailing the guys employer locked? didnt shortski have posters made up proclaiming Nyberg "Wanted: Dead or Alive"? seems like a huuuuge double standard on his part.

if nyberg actually stooped that low, i'm speechless.

When Shortski is the voice of reason, we're in uncharted territory. It is a pretty damning accusation. True or not, Killington has a massive PR problem on their hands after BMMC, and it appears they've gone into bunker mode. "Everything's fine, huge success." Not the right response.

 

[skiadikt]

regarding the bmmc, from the 2007 press release (asc's last season):

"Each year 200 amateur bumpers line up to show their stuff in this spring event, while spectators relax in the sun at the bottom of the trail on lawn chairs and sofas with barbecue grills and coolers in tow, ready to officially celebrate the rites of spring skiing."

to me "coolers in tow" implies byob. so for 27 yrs byob was allowed and suddenly powdr takes over and it's not. did dlc change their policy or just decide to enforce or is powdr just being greedy? in any case bmmc "the party" as we knew it is dead. but they've also killed the event itself. they only had 160 pre-registrants. in past years they would hold the final 10 spots and lottery them off up to 75 late entrants. this year no one cared.

 

[mondeo]

regarding the bmmc, from the 2007 press release (asc's last season):

"Each year 200 amateur bumpers line up to show their stuff in this spring event, while spectators relax in the sun at the bottom of the trail on lawn chairs and sofas with barbecue grills and coolers in tow, ready to officially celebrate the rites of spring skiing."

to me "coolers in tow" implies byob. so for 27 yrs byob was allowed and suddenly powdr takes over and it's not. did dlc change their policy or just decide to enforce or is powdr just being greedy? in any case bmmc "the party" as we knew it is dead. but they've also killed the event itself. they only had 160 pre-registrants. in past years they would hold the final 10 spots and lottery them off up to 75 late entrants. this year no one cared.

For this year, it was just the party that they killed. Those 30 extra spots and everyone going for a lottery entrance were in it for the party. This year there were 125 adults registered as competitors, not partyers; I don't remember seeing more than 5 complete hacks.

But without the party, who knows how long the competition will hang around for.

 

[drjeff]

For this year, it was just the party that they killed. Those 30 extra spots and everyone going for a lottery entrance were in it for the party. This year there were 125 adults registered as competitors, not partyers; I don't remember seeing more than 5 complete hacks.

But without the party, who knows how long the competition will hang around for.

I wouldn't be suprised to see BMMC get morphed into/completely changed to one of the USSA mogul comps that K holds each year, or even just become the BMC "Bear Mountain Challenge" and get have it associated with the Grand Prix.

If I was the KEDC(Killington Economic Development Committee), I guess that I'd be the most pissed off about this, since basically, you've taken away what used to amount to multiple thousands of people that would show up for one one really busy weekend for the local businesses, and I'm not just talking hotels/restaurants/bars, but the gas stations, ski shops, etc.

Should we start the betting pool if BMMC will even be on the Killington Events Calender next year?? Or hopefully K will learn from this, like they appeared to learn from the season length debacle last year, and once again have to try and RE-ATTRACT patrons.

Maybe I'm just looking at it too simplistically, but I know atleast from my business perspective that it takes a heck of alot less effort to retain an existing customer than it does to attract a new customer, and it seems like it will take ALOT of effort to rebuild BMMC if they so choose, especially now that other areas have added events that cater to the LARGE party crowd demographic that one could easily debate was as much of an attraction(if not even more) than the actual bump comp.

 

[Geoff]

When Shortski is the voice of reason, we're in uncharted territory. It is a pretty damning accusation. True or not, Killington has a massive PR problem on their hands after BMMC, and it appears they've gone into bunker mode. "Everything's fine, huge success." Not the right response.

I was the one who told Shortski about that thread yesterday. I was sitting next to him at "The Office" drinking a Coffee Stout and he locked the thread on his iPhone. It's 99%-likely to be a hoax. It does no good to allow internet-savvy marketing people at other resorts to use KZone to spin negative vibe about the resort. The typo in the KillingtonDealGrabbber.com press release link that pointed to Okemo's web site. The Okemo employee who constantly posts on KZone with negative comments about "TommyBoy" and "Maverick". The person who put that up on KZone had 12 posts and only signed up recently. You think maybe there's a reason to be suspicious?

I don't know about you but I'd like things at Killington to improve. If they fixed spring skiing and sorted out their issues with State Liquor Control about BYOB at the BMMC, I'm a happy camper. They opened when they should have opened this year. Their midwinter product was fine other than a few minor annoyances from running lean. Fix the April-May spring party atmosphere and all is well. Burning Chris Nyberg at the stake over what is probably a hoax isn't going to move things forward.

 

[deadheadskier]

I don't know about you but I'd like things at Killington to improve. If they fixed spring skiing and sorted out their issues with State Liquor Control about BYOB at the BMMC, I'm a happy camper.

Was a statement released making it officially a position of the State Liquor Control or is this something that POWDR simply drummed up?

I'm not sure what VT law is on BYOB these days. It used to be that BYOB restaurants had to open the product for the customer (and would typically charge a corkage fee) as to have some control over consumption.

Back in Stowe, we used to have an annual Prohibition Party on Chin Clip where they'd let us take kegs up the Gondola or a use a snowcat, but the kabosh was put on that years ago.

I know other large events such as the Chew Chew on Burlington's waterfront has a designated beer garden as do other waterfront festivals. I used to run the beer garden for the Chew Chew and it was demanded it be handled that way by the DLC and various vendors were given the opportunity to bid on being the supplier and purchasing a temporary off site liquor license.

POWDR may not have a choice other than turning a blind eye, which would be a gamble on their part considering the possible fines and loss of their own liquor license.

It's a real shame BMMC isn't the party it once was, but I'm not sure it will ever be the same again regardless of whether POWDR would want it to be or not.

 

[2knees]

The Okemo employee who constantly posts on KZone with negative comments about "TommyBoy" and "Maverick". The person who put that up on KZone had 12 posts and only signed up recently. You think maybe there's a reason to be suspicious?

So jerseyguy really does work for okemo?

the suspense is killing me.

 

[Geoff]

Was a statement released making it officially a position of the State Liquor Control or is this something that POWDR simply drummed up?

I'm not sure what VT law is on BYOB these days. It used to be that BYOB restaurants had to open the product for the customer (and would typically charge a corkage fee) as to have some control over consumption.

Back in Stowe, we used to have an annual Prohibition Party on Chin Clip where they'd let us take kegs up the Gondola or a use a snowcat, but the kabosh was put on that years ago.

I know other large events such as the Chew Chew on Burlington's waterfront has a designated beer garden as do other waterfront festivals. I used to run the beer garden for the Chew Chew and it was demanded it be handled that way by the DLC and various vendors were given the opportunity to bid on being the supplier and purchasing a temporary off site liquor license.

POWDR may not have a choice other than turning a blind eye, which would be a gamble on their part considering the possible fines and loss of their own liquor license.

It's a real shame BMMC isn't the party it once was, but I'm not sure it will ever be the same again regardless of whether POWDR would want it to be or not.

You can't do kegs because the Vermont liquor laws are written to say that you can't sell or serve alchohol without being licensed. Basically, alcohol has to be for personal consumption. I don't know anybody who can sit down and drink a keg of beer.

The state liquor control people have a cow over selling alcohol and serving minors. If you put in a system that stopped that, nobody has an issue.

If people showed up on the snow below Outer Limits carrying their own alcohol for personal consumption, no laws are being violated. I'd believe there are lots of people who could demolish a 12-pack at an all-day party. If you limited people to a 12-pack or the equivalent in wine (2 bottles) or distilled spirits (325 ml), the Vermont Liquor Control would have no reason to complain. Request that everybody bring an ID and get a wrist band so it's easy to spot minors. Many people would drink themselves out of beer and go spend money on the deck or a beer garden so Killington makes money. If you offered comp breathalyzer tests as people left the parking lot and a way for people to get home if they're over the limit, everybody wins. Give out a tee shirt to people who are over the limit and take the alternate transportation home.

I think Killington could carefully spell out the guidelines. If some tool is up on the snow selling beer, have him arrested. Everybody would cheer.

 

[RootDKJ]

Or if they really supported the party, there's no reason why the couldn't sell dollar drafts to ease the no-byob pain.

 

[Highway Star]

So jerseyguy really does work for okemo?

the suspense is killing me.

Welcome to last year....

 

[2knees]

Welcome to last year....

nice way to pick up on the sarcasm creepy kevin.

 

[threecy]

I'm not familiar with the alcohol laws in Vermont, but I had to enforce this multiple times in MA.

You can't do kegs because the Vermont liquor laws are written to say that you can't sell or serve alchohol without being licensed.

If people showed up on the snow below Outer Limits carrying their own alcohol for personal consumption, no laws are being violated.

I believe that those two comments go together. In the cases I was dealing with, the locally enforced rules prevented alcohol not served by us from being on the premises. Penalty was loss of alcohol liscense. Those are very valuable and hard to re-acquire if lost.

 

[JerseyJoey]

Welcome to last year....

Great post HS. Top notch stuff.

 

[Highway Star]

Great post HS. Top notch stuff.

Thanks, you too. Brilliant.

 

[SpinmasterK]

So jerseyguy really does work for okemo?

the suspense is killing me.

 

[Highway Star]

Leaving alot on the table here....

Back in the mid-late '90's, Killington set a record for only being closed for 100 DAYS. They closed in late June and re-opened in early October. This was at the peak of the ASC days.

Point is, having skiing available for a majority of the year allowed Killington to dominate the east in skier visits. It drew in people to buy passes, people from other areas early and late season, and sustained a larger level of activity there year round. Ski season had a strong overlap with mountain biking and golf.

Even during the last few years of ASC, buying a cheap bronze pass allowed people to ski Killington early and late season, and spend the mid-season at their home areas.

Now, they have the same season length as most other major resorts. The opening on Nov. 2nd this year was pretty much uncrowded, and I'm guessing April will be as well. They competely shut down for May, and everybody forgets about Killington.

Killington's "killer-app" was the looooong season with little downtime in the summer months. It helped build the area. They need to return to it.

In fact, with the correct strategy and some signifigant investment, they could offer YEAR-ROUND skiing at the top of Killington. Look up "IDE snowmaker", they are already being installed on glaciers in Europe for making snow during the summer. That, plus a lift on middle-upper downdraft, would allow them to offer 700ft of vert on Cascade and Downdraft, above 3400ft. One trail with bumps, the other with a park, and a groomed section. Cover the snow with insulating blankets when not in use, or when it's raining. The K-1, for access, runs all summer anyway.

If people are willing to fly to south america, or head west to mogul camps, or to europe, or to Xanadu in NJ.....then I'm pretty sure they would get a good crowd. Operate on Friday to Sunday, and rent midweek days to race teams. I'm sure they could sell a summer skiing pass, and $50+ day tickets. You would probably get even more people just visiting to check out the snow. Food/bev sales at the peak lodge would be to a captive audience. Having something like this would REALLY boost demand for a base Village.....

Dooo it.....lol.



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