Killington Season Pass Price to be announced Monday June 18th?

[ski_resort_observer]

Only thing I can say about this is remember that POWDR does not own Killington. The land group does. POWDR is just the managing the place. You got to hope that the Land people put pressure on POWDR to keep Kilington open early and late. After all long ski seasons can increase the property value of Killington. More likely to buy a condo in a place were you can ski in the morning and golf in the afternoon. Can't do that if Killington closes May 6.

I have seen several things written about the relationship between Powdr and SP Land, who owns it, who actually purchased the resort. The multible of articles I have read at the time of the purchase say " Powdr purchases Killington", SP Land isn't even mentioned in several of them.. The other thing I have read is what your saying, that SP Land purchased the resort, Powdr will be just managing.

I would love to see some definitive info/documentation on exactly what the deal is. Who owns what? Powdr really has no decision making power on how the resort is run, which is what your saying.

 

[andyzee]

Mountain is owned by the state, land around the mountain (lodges, parking lot, etc) is owned by SP. So what's left for Powdr, the lifts?

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I guess another way to ask the question is who paid the 85.2m? . Did Powdr put up any money? Powdr sold Alpine Meadows just prior to the kmart sale which would give them some cash to contribute to the purchase.

This is from an article in the BFP today:

"Killington's new owners, Powdr Corp. of Salt Lake City, Utah, and SP Land Corp. of Dallas, say the terms under which they completed the $85.2 million...".

Doesn't that imply that Powdr is more than an operator?

SP Land purchased the development rights at the base a few years ago for big bucks, then sold it Centex, then the deal fell thru and they got it back. Not to muddle it even more but SP Land is/was connected to ASC.

SAM Magazine--Park City, Utah, May 14, 2004--American Skiing Company (ASC) has restructured its real estate debt, cutting $80.4 million from its balance sheet.

The restructuring creates a new partnership between ASC's Killington Resort and SP Land, a newly formed affiliate of Eiger, Inc., one of the lenders under ASC's Real Estate Term Facility, to develop a base village at Killington. Several development parcels at Killington, along with $55.4 million debt held by Fleet National Bank and Ski Partners LLC, have been transferred from ASC Resort Properties and Killington into SP Land. Ski Partners, an affiliate of Eiger, owns 75 percent of SP Land; ASC and Killington combined retain 25 percent.

ASC expects these changes to jump-start the stalled development of the Killington base village. "We believe that the new company has the real estate expertise and financial resources necessary to take the village from a planning stage to fruition," said Allen Wilson, president of Killington Resort.

Okay...found the technical answer but still doesn't mean Powdr has or has not put up money towards the purchase which would make them a owner. The P&S which has to be made public shows the buyers as SP Land and Ski Partners. Interestingly I came across an article in the P&S which states the new owners will honor lifetime passes. Guess that part got changed. :lol: If you care to peruse thru this exciting document here's a link. :wink:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1043432/000110465907016723/a07-7202_1ex10d1.htm

Back to the question will kmart continue with the trend, along with alot of other resorts, and keep the season shorter or will new ownership bring a return to longer seasons. I think it will stay short due to lack of business in May which is not profitable anymore. Overall revenue will be down but profit % will improve, EBIDTA will also improve which is basically gross profit/loss.

 

[twinplanx]

OK, nycskier so out of necessity you make the trip by train, not many people have that degree of dedication... it sure is a shame killington doesn't run buses but there are tour operators out NY unfortunately the bulk of these tours are High schoolers...

 

[Geoff]

I have seen several things written about the relationship between Powdr and SP Land, who owns it, who actually purchased the resort. The multible of articles I have read at the time of the purchase say " Powdr purchases Killington", SP Land isn't even mentioned in several of them.. The other thing I have read is what your saying, that SP Land purchased the resort, Powdr will be just managing.

I would love to see some definitive info/documentation on exactly what the deal is. Who owns what? Powdr really has no decision making power on how the resort is run, which is what your saying.

The American Skiing Company SEC filing says they sold the assets of Killington to SP Land. It doesn't mention POWDR at all. I've been assuming that the parent of SP Land, Eiger Fund/E2M is a bunch of Texas money guys and needed a junior partner who knew how to operate ski resorts. No telling if POWDR had to put any money up to get in on the deal and no telling if POWDR has much of an ownership stake. ASC is publicly traded so their information is available for all to see. E2M is private so we may never know.

 

[Geoff]

No, they don't have to do a thing, but I can just as well ski somewhere else with a longer season, such as Wildcat or Sugarbush. I could care less if they charge $80 for a day ticket or $180, or $1,000 - $2,000 for a season pass, show me a longer ski season and I will gladly pay for it.

Killington's season will be drastically cut back to the standard Thanksgiving to Easter, of that I am nearly 100% certain. In that case, I have no reason to ski there as I did very little mid season skiing there anyway.

I think that the circumstances are completely different. There are 50 million people within driving distance of Killington. There are 3 million people within driving distance of Mt Hood. Killington, until ASC trashed their brand, marketed themselves as the biggest and best snowmaking in the world. The early and late skiing never made money. It was a marketing activity to attract high yield skiers midwinter since Killington was a safe bet for a vacation when other mountains might be lousy.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

The American Skiing Company SEC filing says they sold the assets of Killington to SP Land. It doesn't mention POWDR at all. I've been assuming that the parent of SP Land, Eiger Fund/E2M is a bunch of Texas money guys and needed a junior partner who knew how to operate ski resorts. No telling if POWDR had to put any money up to get in on the deal and no telling if POWDR has much of an ownership stake. ASC is publicly traded so their information is available for all to see. E2M is private so we may never know.

In reading the P&S agreement off the SEC site I found alot of interesting minor twists. One being that ASC has a 1% stake in SP Land. The ink is barely dry on the deal so I'm thinking down the road the true financial commitment made by Powdr will come out.

 

[nycskier]

OK, nycskier so out of necessity you make the trip by train, not many people have that degree of dedication... it sure is a shame killington doesn't run buses but there are tour operators out NY unfortunately the bulk of these tours are High schoolers...

There might be tour packages but there is no bus that leaves NYC on Friday and returns on Sunday.Believe me if there was I would have found it. There are buses that go to Stratton, Okemo and Mount Snow. Also the main problem with Amtrak is all the trains back to NY on Monday through Saturday leave in the Morning. So if you want to stay for a long weekend you can't take the train back.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

There might be tour packages but there is no bus that leaves NYC on Friday and returns on Sunday.Believe me if there was I would have found it. There are buses that go to Stratton, Okemo and Mount Snow. Also the main problem with Amtrak is all the trains back to NY on Monday through Saturday leave in the Morning. So if you want to stay for a long weekend you can't take the train back.

Really great posts that totally point out that their is a market that many of the resorts in Vermont are missing the boat on....shoud I say train and bus. When I worked at the Bush in the late 90's we had put together ski/stay packages with Amtrak but they were so unworkable in 5 years I rarely remember booking one.

We have no regular bus service, same thing. A few would take the bus to Montpelier then get a cab. For trains a few people would do the Vermonter which gets you to Waterbury then you have to get a cab. Lots of stops along the way so it's a long trip.

The Ethan Allen does bring some business to Kmart as the route ends up in Rutland. It departs at 5:15PM from Rutland and ends up in NYC at 10:45 for Sunday and it departs Friday from NYC at 2pm and arrives in Rutland at 8pm. I guess not enough business going from Rutland to NYC in the afternoon on Mondays. I wish the VSAA(Vermont Ski Areas Assoc) and the Vermont Dept of Travel and Tourism could improve the situation for resorts further north.

The Bush, as I am sure most every ski resort, does get some adult groups who come in their own bus, stay in the Valley, in Waterbury or Burlington, and leaves after skiing on Sunday. Some come midweek which is a good value.

This past winter one of the best parts of my job at the Bush was I met the group buses in the parking lots(both ME and LP) on their first day. I helped them park, handed out lift tickets and answered alot of questions. I got to know the drivers and the tour operators. For some I think it works well but not for everyone. The costs is pretty reasonable and once you get to the hill your pretty much on your own and can ski wherever you want.

As you probably know there is a ton of ski clubs in and around the nyc area. If you joined you get a discounted Killington season pass, have a place to stay, the lodging is varied, and be able to ski a bunch.

 

[Geoff]

As you probably know there is a ton of ski clubs in and around the nyc area. If you joined you get a discounted Killington season pass, have a place to stay, the lodging is varied, and be able to ski a bunch.

I'm not aware of any discounted season pass products offered to ski clubs other than the deal that was always offered pre-All4One days to the Killington Ski Club. You needed to have a kid to get adult pass discounts.

Flatland ski clubs like those affiliated with the Connecticut Ski Council could bulk buy discounted day tickets in late-September. Sugarbush and the southern Vermont areas also participate in that program.

My first digs at Killington in the early 80's were a ski club house a few miles up Rt 100 from a club based in lower Fairfield County. It was a bargain but if you wanted to ski every weekend, a share house worked better since you had your own bed for not much more money.

 

[nycskier]

ski_resort_observer, I am sure if a bus ran to Killington it would be full. A lot of weekend I have had friends who wanted to come up but couldn't because they didn't have rides.

I know for people who live in the suburbs and rural areas it is hard to understand but most people who live in NYC don't have a car. In fact if it wasn't for skiing I probably would never drive.

Having some sort of bus or subway to get up to the mountains is key. And believe me I could write a book on what is wrong with the way Amtrak is run. It is a 5 1/2 hour train ride (assuming the train runs on time which it rarely does).

It takes 2 1/2 hours to go from NYC to Albany and 3 hours to go from Albany to Rutland! It is an 1 hour and 45 minute drive from the Albany train station to Rutland.

The train goes unbarely slow through Vermont and at some goes as slow as 15mph. It can take as long as 50 minutes to get from Fair Haven to Rutland.

If the tracks were upgraded you could easily take an hour or 2 off of the ride. If they did they would be shocked to see how many more people would choose to go to Killington via the train.

 

[nycskier]

BTW, the train to St Albans and Jay Peak from NYC is a mere 10 hours!

 

[gpetrics]

ski_resort_observer, I am sure if a bus ran to Killington it would be full. A lot of weekend I have had friends who wanted to come up but couldn't because they didn't have rides.

I know for people who live in the suburbs and rural areas it is hard to understand but most people who live in NYC don't have a car. In fact if it wasn't for skiing I probably would never drive.

Having some sort of bus or subway to get up to the mountains is key. And believe me I could write a book on what is wrong with the way Amtrak is run. It is a 5 1/2 hour train ride (assuming the train runs on time which it rarely does).

It takes 2 1/2 hours to go from NYC to Albany and 3 hours to go from Albany to Rutland! It is an 1 hour and 45 minute drive from the Albany train station to Rutland.

The train goes unbarely slow through Vermont and at some goes as slow as 15mph. It can take as long as 50 minutes to get from Fair Haven to Rutland.

If the tracks were upgraded you could easily take an hour or 2 off of the ride. If they did they would be shocked to see how many more people would choose to go to Killington via the train.

AMEN. I wish they would fix those damn tracks. It is simply horrendous the amount of time it takes to get from Albany to Rutland on the train. The state would do well to fund the repairs on the tracks if for no other reason but to make that train more utilized.

On another note, someone should tell the Fung Wah operators how much money they would make on a ski bus... ;- )

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Geoff - your right I meant discounted lift tickets.

nycskier - it seems it would be worth it if AMTRAK just did an express run to Rutland to see if it was worth it. That's were I think VSAA and Vt DTT could help with.

 

[nycskier]

Geoff - your right I meant discounted lift tickets.

nycskier - it seems it would be worth it if AMTRAK just did an express run to Rutland to see if it was worth it. That's were I think VSAA and Vt DTT could help with.

I know they did talk with Amtrak to create the 5:45pm train out of NYC on Friday and the 5:15pm train out of Rutland on Sunday. But it doesn't help during long weekends. Took the train up MLK weekend and people on the train booked trip back that left Monday at 10:30am. So they got a 3 day weekend with only 2 days of skiing. Luckily I had a ride back on Monday so it wasn't an issue for me.

Believe me I am so tempted to quit my job and start a ski bus service from NYC!

 

[twinplanx]

<---Has experience chaperoning ski tours from NYC...
just incase you do quit your job...

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I know they did talk with Amtrak to create the 5:45pm train out of NYC on Friday and the 5:15pm train out of Rutland on Sunday. But it doesn't help during long weekends. Took the train up MLK weekend and people on the train booked trip back that left Monday at 10:30am. So they got a 3 day weekend with only 2 days of skiing. Luckily I had a ride back on Monday so it wasn't an issue for me.

Believe me I am so tempted to quit my job and start a ski bus service from NYC!

Well, two companies that do alot of business with the Bush is Ski Market out of Boston and La Voyage out of Montreal. You could maybe check out their websites to get some baseline info on how it works.