Lodges that don't allow outside food

[deadheadskier]

And I'll bet the average EPIC pass holder spends less than 13 days on the slopes.



How is that possible? If defies economics, as well as my decade of life in Manhattan. Perhaps if you're a giant chain you can volumetrically bring the costs down by buying a ******** of flour or mushrooms, etc..., but for the average mom & pop store I cant believe your example is financially possible.

Doesn't have to be a chain. We dealt with 90% independent restaurants. The volume difference between a busy Boston or Manhattan restaurant compared to those in the burbs was that great. I'd sell product at a 15% profit margin in Boston that would get sold at 30-35% margin in the burbs. The volume of the restaurants played into this as did the efficiency of doing business in the city. I could start a delivery route at 5AM and my driver would be done at Noon completing 50 deliveries. The guy in the burbs wouldn't start until 7 or 8 and be lucky to get 25 deliveries in by 5PM and there would be 25% of the value of the product on that truck compared to the city route.

Extrapolate that out to ski country where volumes and efficiencies are even lower except for holiday weeks and it's not too difficult to see how even smaller price breaks are offered.


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[BenedictGomez]

You can get gas cheaper in manhattan then outside of it? Come on man, that is just ridicules, gas is currently around $2.75 a gallon for regular in the city, go out to queens its about $2.59 and in Nassau county its $2.45.

And $2.33 in north Jersey (yesterday when I filled-up), which isnt even cheapest, my wife paid $2.22 at Costco.

 

[benski]

I think what Deadheadskier is talking about does not translate into saving for the end consumer. I would guess all those saving go to the landlord and more.

 

[Abominable]

Some things, like gas, you can't compare across state lines 'cause too many other variables (taxes).

"You can get gas cheaper in manhattan then outside of it? Come on man, that is just ridicules, gas is currently around $2.75 a gallon for regular in the city, go out to queens its about $2.59 and in Nassau county its $2.45."

2.77 is the cheapest near me according to Gas Buddy. I live right in the middle of this dark patch of blood red. But maybe when I said Manhattan I should have meant the city as a whole.

View attachment Gas Buddy.pdf


"Do you buy your own groceries? I spent a decade ferrying groceries into Manhattan from Jersey, and it wasnt because I enjoyed humping milk & salsa. Or perhaps Westchester is it's own extremely expensive microcosm and is thus a very bad comparative example. Put another way, there are other places "outside of the city" where hedge fund managers dont live."

Wchester is definitely its own expensive microcosm, and I was probably wrong to equate westchester / fairfield with other places "outside the city." I was just trying to agree with DHS's larger point that the sheer volume of the city in terms of business, suppliers, proximity of markets and shipping and all that can outweigh the impact of higher taxes and real estate, and that your average mom n' pop taco joint in NYC is probably paying less for tacos and ground beef than the Black Line Tavern.

 

[Not Sure]

That line gave me one of my best belly laughs in quite a while
Good overall post with some valid stuff to think about.

Haha yes hopefully the outlet is GFCI protected .

To me it's just wrong , not only not buying from the cafe but your using the mountains electricity albeit a few cents worth but just doesn't seem right .

At least this year is starting off well ... lower fuel prices and some help from Ullr

 

[abc]

I think what Deadheadskier is talking about does not translate into saving for the end consumer. I would guess all those saving go to the landlord and more.

It does translate to end customer saving, due to competition.

What you're missing is, with high volume they can make the same total with a smaller margin.

Granted, the rent maybe higher. But some other cost maybe lower, again due to competition. So the total cost doesn't have to be as high as many imagined.

Doesn't mean it's easy to operate in the city. Many restaurants close within a year or two. But those who figured out the cost and margin can make a steady stream at a relatively thin margin. That's the difference between operating in the city center vs in the 'burbs.

 

[drjeff]

My hunch is that the "no outside food" allowed in the new Carinthia Lodge/on it's outside deck area will be put to the test tomorrow when the $12 ticket Founder's Day crowd shows up usually in large quantities.....

 

[Hawk]

I have skied at Sugarbush and Sunday River most of my life. Both have pretty large racing communities. I have seen everything that has been described on this thread. None of it bothers me at all. These are people that invest large amounts of time on their kids passion. Rich, Poor, Frugal or excessive, they are hurting no one and in both the communities that I have skied, no one has bothered them. Not the mountain, fellow skiers or the general public. What I don't understand is that people take issue with these harmless people. Generally it only seems that it is the people on here. We are skiers and skiing is on the hill not in the lodge Right?

 

[thetrailboss]

I have skied at Sugarbush and Sunday River most of my life. Both have pretty large racing communities. I have seen everything that has been described on this thread. None of it bothers me at all. These are people that invest large amounts of time on their kids passion. Rich, Poor, Frugal or excessive, they are hurting no one and in both the communities that I have skied, no one has bothered them. Not the mountain, fellow skiers or the general public. What I don't understand is that people take issue with these harmless people. Generally it only seems that it is the people on here. We are skiers and skiing is on the hill not in the lodge Right?

I have seen that as well in those places--Barker Mountain Lodge has a lot of room where folks can go and congregate out of the way. At Sugarbush, it seemed that the Mount Ellen Lodge would just get overrun on a weekend and that space was more in demand.

I think the issue becomes one of entitlement. I've certainly seen a few bad apples in the racing crowd who are disrespectful and feel entitled. At Burke Mountain they throw stuff everywhere and act like they own the place. It rubs folks the wrong way. We've had plenty of threads, posts, and comments about this phenomenon.

 

[Hawk]

I have seen that as well in those places--Barker Mountain Lodge has a lot of room where folks can go and congregate out of the way. At Sugarbush, it seemed that the Mount Ellen Lodge would just get overrun on a weekend and that space was more in demand.

I think the issue becomes one of entitlement. I've certainly seen a few bad apples in the racing crowd who are disrespectful and feel entitled. At Burke Mountain they throw stuff everywhere and act like they own the place. It rubs folks the wrong way. We've had plenty of threads, posts, and comments about this phenomenon.

I hear what you are saying trail Boss. I guess that I have never heard or seen the "entitled" thing. The people that I have seen are very respectful and kind. It's funny but again, the whole entitled thing only comes up on here. I don't thing they are entitled. Is this a stereo type for Racers?

 

[jm99]

I hear what you are saying trail Boss. I guess that I have never heard or seen the "entitled" thing. The people that I have seen are very respectful and kind. It's funny but again, the whole entitled thing only comes up on here. I don't thing they are entitled. Is this a stereo type for Racers?

Racers generally aren't that bad at most places, but there are a few mountains where they seem to feel like they own the place. Definitely one of the major reasons I stopped skiing Waterville. I wonder if that "Blue Boy" at Hunter honed his skills as a racer kid at WV. Never had any issues in the lodge there (just on the hill), though I definitely have noticed their strong presence in the Mt. Ellen lodge.

 

[skiur]

I would venture to think that most people that feel its wrong to bring your own food into a base lodge are people that are wealthy and always have been. The people that think it is ok to bring in food are the people that cant afford to buy the resorts overpriced food or can now but earlier in their life couldn't.

 

[Bumpsis]

I hear what you are saying trail Boss. I guess that I have never heard or seen the "entitled" thing. The people that I have seen are very respectful and kind. It's funny but again, the whole entitled thing only comes up on here. I don't thing they are entitled. Is this a stereo type for Racers?

I've seen plenty of the "entitled" thing at Sugarloaf, over and over. Tables taken over with stuff on top and underneath and actually, fairly bad attitudes on part of the racing "kids". But to some extend I blame Sugarloaf management for not doing their job. They could allocate portions of the big room just for the racing crowd.
There are number of ski areas that do a really good job dealing with the issue of general public colonizing tables. One specific example, Sunapee has has free storage area in both of their lodges and signs that clearly instruct customers not to leave their crap on and under tables when not in use.

 

[drjeff]

I have seen that as well in those places--Barker Mountain Lodge has a lot of room where folks can go and congregate out of the way. At Sugarbush, it seemed that the Mount Ellen Lodge would just get overrun on a weekend and that space was more in demand.

I think the issue becomes one of entitlement. I've certainly seen a few bad apples in the racing crowd who are disrespectful and feel entitled. At Burke Mountain they throw stuff everywhere and act like they own the place. It rubs folks the wrong way. We've had plenty of threads, posts, and comments about this phenomenon.

I hear what you are saying trail Boss. I guess that I have never heard or seen the "entitled" thing. The people that I have seen are very respectful and kind. It's funny but again, the whole entitled thing only comes up on here. I don't thing they are entitled. Is this a stereo type for Racers?

Racers generally aren't that bad at most places, but there are a few mountains where they seem to feel like they own the place. Definitely one of the major reasons I stopped skiing Waterville. I wonder if that "Blue Boy" at Hunter honed his skills as a racer kid at WV. Never had any issues in the lodge there (just on the hill), though I definitely have noticed their strong presence in the Mt. Ellen lodge.

From what I have seen, been a part of (both as a racer growing up, and now as a racer parent x 2) just like with many things, it's a small minority of the population that creates the problems for the entire group.

Most racer parents are nice, considerate, will give you table space if it's not full without a doubt, try not to occupy a huge space, etc, etc, etc. IMHO, those tend to be the parents who grew up racing themselves. There are a few though, that create the problem. They are the crew that won't give up a seat, even if the seat isn't occupied and it will likely be a while before their kid(s) and/or teammates would be coming in for a break. They tend to "tag off" control of the table between other racer parents when they go out to see their kid(s) compete, they rarely, if ever, will ski themselves on a race day, and they tend to be the crew who will video or photo document most every move in the lodge their kid(s) make from putting on their boots to heading out the door. They also tend to be parents of the younger age group racers (U10's, U12's and few U14's).

My hunch is that these are the same parents who drive other parent's crazy at say youth soccer games, youth baseball/softball games, school plays/concerts, etc. While my first hand experience of this as a parent has only been for the last 6 years now, and mainly from racer parents of athlete's who compete in the Southern VT Council (Mount Snow, Magic, Bromley, Stratton, Willard Mtn, NY, and for a few seasons, The Hermitage) I have also seen the same, ISOLATED parental behavior when my kids have competed in VT State Championship meets as well as a couple of Northeast Regional meets

 

[thetrailboss]

I hear what you are saying trail Boss. I guess that I have never heard or seen the "entitled" thing. The people that I have seen are very respectful and kind. It's funny but again, the whole entitled thing only comes up on here. I don't thing they are entitled. Is this a stereo type for Racers?

I prefer not to get into the whole debate again. To sum up what has been said, a lot of folks at private elite racing schools need deep pockets to sustain that kind of activity. With that comes the "new rich" crowd who feel entitled and act pretty rudely to others. I see it out here and back east. It happens. Are all racers bad? No.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I guess that I have never heard or seen the "entitled" thing.

Is this a stereo type for Racers?

No; it's a stereotype for bad parenting.

As always, there's some truth to every stereotype.

 

[drjeff]

I prefer not to get into the whole debate again. To sum up what has been said, a lot of folks at private elite racing schools need deep pockets to sustain that kind of activity. With that comes the "new rich" crowd who feel entitled and act pretty rudely to others. I see it out here and back east. It happens. Are all racers bad? No.

Honestly, it's not the "new rich" that tend to be creating the table hogging issues at races, it tends to be the parents with less financial means, that are sacrificing for the sake of their kids, that show up with the crockpots, tablecloths, etc and "take over" the table and not let others in the lodge use the open seats at the table. And in no way shape or form do I begrudge them and the efforts they're making to help instill the love of the sport on their kids. I think any kid that ski races or has parents that want to take them to a mountain is an awesome thing!! (Just don't hog a table in a crowded lodge all day!)

The "new rich" if you want to label them that way, are way more likely to buy from the cafeteria or eat in a base/mid mountain lodge restaurant (they may be more likely to get upset if they can't be seated quickly in a table in restaurant, but that is often solved with a quick trip to the bar while waiting) , and either be out skiing or snowshoeing up to the finish area to watch their kids in my experience.

I guess, since it's the racer parent crowd that were talking about, parents who are used to being at a mountain, and kind of understand the crowd dynamics of a base lodge, it's more of a small mountain/big mountain thing that I have seen in my limited, mainly VT based racer parent experience. Or let me put it this way, I've NEVER witnessed a Stratton or Hermitage Club racer parent bringing a crock pot into the lodge with them on a race day.... :wink:

 

[Jully]

No; it's a stereotype for bad parenting.

As always, there's some truth to every stereotype.

This. Entitled people (parents and kids) are everywhere. Not sure if its any higher here than with any other sport/activity.

 

[tnt1234]

It's basically impossible to think the east coast junior racing world could continue without the parents spending time in the lodges, bringing food, snacks beverages, etc....and making the day as pleasant as possible for their kids and themselves.

Anyone who begrudges those tables with their tablecloths and crock pots just doesn't understand the time and money commitments involved in the activity.

And if the mountains only want clients who will buy $12 chicken finger meals, $2 apples, $4 gatorades, they should not host races.

Money aside, from a timing POV you could't keep these kids fed and hydrated on lodge food alone on a busy weened day, with the lines out the door.

So racing folks...thats a whole separate issue No way in hell could they forgo packing in food IMO.

 

[tumbler]

This. Entitled people (parents and kids) are everywhere. Not sure if its any higher here than with any other sport/activity.

True, but skiing is unique where the regular public comes in contact with it. Otherwise it is insulated to the soccer and lax fields.