MAGIC: AZ Challenge 2007 Response/Feedback Thread

[Greg]

Matt's responses are in:

http://skiing.alpinezone.com/articles/challenge/2007/response.htm?resort=magic

 

[Greg]

Complete and honest answers. Great job. Looks like 2008-09 should bring about some great changes. Glad to hear the Red Chair will remain for the foreseeable future. I don't think the terrain can handle an HSQ as a Black Chair replacement. Go with an FG. Psyched to hear about the bumps and experienced groomer to seed them. Give Magic a few visits this season, folks. This mountain needs your patronage!

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Glad to hear the Red Chair will remain for the foreseeable future. I don't think the terrain can handle an HSQ as a Black Chair replacement. Go with an FG.

I think the issue here is that the terrain can't handle a quad. Again, the issue has nothing to do with FG vs. detach. They both transport 2400pph.

I would definitely just replace it with a new FG triple. Don't want to overload that terrain... it's some truly fantastic skiing, and overpopulating it would not be good.

Overall, I'm pleased with the openness of the responses, and I think this new regime will bring about a lot of positive changes at Magic. I wish them the best!

 

[millerm277]

Great answers, I like the honesty in the answers, and in their general business practices so far. I can't think of many resorts that would willingly reduce the amount of terrain they claim to be able to make snow on just to make it more accurate.

I'm looking forward to getting to ski there this year, and I hope they do well.

 

[MikeTrainor]

I think I would go for a fixed grip quad. I haven't really seen Magic at capacity so I really don't think it will make that much of a difference between a triple and a quad. People like quads now a days and I think it would make the most sense to buy quad chairs. If you want to limit capacity space the chairs further apart.

Also fixed grips are cheaper to buy and operate.

If you look at the other side of the coin though, high speed lifts tend to draw more people. Take Wildcat for example, how many people want nothing to do with the mountain if the high speed is not open? Most of us here don't mind taking the tomcat triple up, but i would say most of their clients love the base to summit high speed lift.

All things weighed in I would like to see a fixed grip quad with a larger than normal chair spacing.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

All things weighed in I would like to see a fixed grip quad with a larger than normal chair spacing.

I'd go for that. FSQ with 1800pph capacity or so.

 

[millerm277]

In the future (say, 5-10 years down the line), I think a HS lift, with widely spaced chairs, might be a good fit. Right now, I don't think they have enough customers to make it feasible, and the operating costs would be a bit much for them in my opinion.

In the meantime, try to keep the black chair going for as long as they can, get the Phoenix and a beginner chair running, and improve the snowmaking as much as they can.

 

[pepperdawg]

Still REALLY disappointed about the loss of $25 midweek

but at least there's -

<<Magic Mondays: Holders of another areas season pass can ski or ride Magic on any non-holiday Monday throughout the season for $30.00.>>

 

[mtl1076]

Great answers, I like the honesty in the answers, and in their general business practices so far. I can't think of many resorts that would willingly reduce the amount of terrain they claim to be able to make snow on just to make it more accurate.

I'm looking forward to getting to ski there this year, and I hope they do well.

Thanks. I also forgot to mention that the new trail count is 40, down from 48 or 53 (depending on which map you looked at). I am hoping to have it up by Monday. We think everyone will appreciate the simplicity and honesty.

 

[mtl1076]

I think I would go for a fixed grip quad. I haven't really seen Magic at capacity so I really don't think it will make that much of a difference between a triple and a quad. People like quads now a days and I think it would make the most sense to buy quad chairs. If you want to limit capacity space the chairs further apart.

Also fixed grips are cheaper to buy and operate.

If you look at the other side of the coin though, high speed lifts tend to draw more people. Take Wildcat for example, how many people want nothing to do with the mountain if the high speed is not open? Most of us here don't mind taking the tomcat triple up, but i would say most of their clients love the base to summit high speed lift.

All things weighed in I would like to see a fixed grip quad with a larger than normal chair spacing.

You've got the arguement summed up pretty well. My dream is a high speed double or a nice retro gondola.

 

[bvibert]

Thanks. I also forgot to mention that the new trail count is 40, down from 48 or 53 (depending on which map you looked at). I am hoping to have it up by Monday. We think everyone will appreciate the simplicity and honesty.

Wow, another first! Kudos. Thanks for taking the time to give such detailed, honest answers Matt!

I can't wait to ski up there again this year. Bring on the SNOW!!

 

[bvibert]

You've got the arguement summed up pretty well. My dream is a high speed double or a nice retro gondola.

I was going to say a HS triple, but I like the double idea even better!

 

[millerm277]

You've got the arguement summed up pretty well. My dream is a high speed double or a nice retro gondola.

A HS double or triple would be a great idea. Best of both worlds.. However, I'm guessing that would probably cost more than a normal lift, considering I only know of two or three HS lifts that aren't quads or 6-packs.

 

[kcyanks1]

I think the issue here is that the terrain can't handle a quad. Again, the issue has nothing to do with FG vs. detach. They both transport 2400pph.

I would definitely just replace it with a new FG triple. Don't want to overload that terrain... it's some truly fantastic skiing, and overpopulating it would not be good.

Overall, I'm pleased with the openness of the responses, and I think this new regime will bring about a lot of positive changes at Magic. I wish them the best!

I haven't read the responses yet, but I think when installing any lift instead of the black chair, you can't simply think of it as replacing a triple even, because didn't they only load every other chair on the black chair? At least the one time I was at Magic (a few years ago) that is what they did. So it was a more like a single-and-half, and that's assuming it was running as fast as normal fixed-grip triples (unless the chairs were unusually close together).

 

[mtl1076]

I only know of two or three HS lifts that aren't quads or 6-packs.

really?? Where?? I didn't even think they existed. It was more of a pipe dream.

 

[jaytrem]

HS Triples can be found in the US at Gore, Alta, Aspen and I think maybe one more place. At Aspen they apparently only use it as a double unless it's really crowded.

 

[millerm277]

really?? Where?? I didn't even think they existed. It was more of a pipe dream.

Gore Mtn has a high-speed triple. (I believe it's the called the adirondack express), I think there are a few more, but I can't think of them right now.

 

[2knees]

Straight answers. what a concept! Looks like the snowmaking isnt going to be significantly different from last year. Hopefully they will be able to cover all their primary areas first so that if it is a lean winter, lucifer can get some love too. If they are able to maintain a bump run, that would make magic a primary draw for me even if there hasnt been any natural snow. And that would be quite a change. I know a number of people who love the place but wouldnt touch it without a good snowfall before they go.

 

[Greg]

Straight answers. what a concept! Looks like the snowmaking isnt going to be significantly different from last year. Hopefully they will be able to cover all their primary areas first so that if it is a lean winter, lucifer can get some love too. If they are able to maintain a bump run, that would make magic a primary draw for me even if there hasnt been any natural snow. And that would be quite a change. I know a number of people who love the place but wouldnt touch it without a good snowfall before they go.

This is all moot cuz it's going to be an epic winter!

Seriously though. A quality seeded bump run of 800-1,000 vertical feet would have me up there regardless of natural snow depths as well.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

I think an HSD or HST is a neat novelty, but if you research the engineering, design, material, and install costs, it's not very cost effective. I don't have many details at the moment, but after speaking with several lift professionals on the topic, it's agreed that, unless you're going for the novelty, you're wasting money.

That said, I would enjoy riding it. I just hope you (Magic) invest wisely and don't waste money on a novelty. Magic has always kind of had that no-frills laid back atmosphere, and I hope that doesn't change.

Again... I really really appreciate the honesty in these answers. It's like a breath of fresh air compared to most areas!