Mittersill Photos (September 2010)

[Puck it]

Right, but apparently there are no access roads/paths to the liftline itself, at least according to Cannon. I'd imagine that, being the state, they want to do the least environmentally intrusive thing and cutting roads to the liftline is frowned upon.

Bingo!!!! We all know he is upset by the cost of the lift and how it is affecting the bottom line of NH.

 

[deadheadskier]

How is Hunter Mountain installing their lift this summer? With Helicopters? Didn't Middlebury use Helicopters last year?

Thought that was quite common.

 

[Newpylong]

The common technique is to tow the concrete truck up via a bigger rig...a standard practice for over half a century...concrete truck doesn't get stuck, nor does it run the risk of rolling out of control if the brakes fail. In regard to a road, there's a road all the way to the top terminal that trucks and excavators have already been using (lots of earth work has already been done, including putting in place a massive pile of dirt that will likely be pushed into the top terminal when cured).

It may be common practice (I still think Helicopter is more common) if you have carte blanche to build/grade/clear access roads to get the heavy machinery up. A road to the top means nothing if you still have towers to do in the middle that are not accessible.

 

[Puck it]

How is Hunter Mountain installing their lift this summer? With Helicopters? Didn't Middlebury use Helicopters last year?

Thought that was quite common.

DMC posted pics of the copters flying in towers. Not sure about concrete though.

 

[threecy]

Have you done this?

I have not officially been on an install crew, but I've been on site for a few. I'll leave it at that so that OSHA doesn't chase after me

Right, but apparently there are no access roads/paths to the liftline itself, at least according to Cannon. I'd imagine that, being the state, they want to do the least environmentally intrusive thing and cutting roads to the liftline is frowned upon.

The access road crisscrosses up the liftline. I believe they used it to get the trucks up there to build the forms and drop the old towers. Every footing I saw would be reachable via concrete truck - they don't need to be parked right next to the footing to pour it (I have some old slides somewhere of some very long pours).

How is Hunter Mountain installing their lift this summer? With Helicopters? Didn't Middlebury use Helicopters last year?

Thought that was quite common.

It's common for OEM as prime installs (ie Poma, Doppelmayr). As sub, it's not nearly as common, especially if the terrain is mellow like Mittersill.

 

[drjeff]

It's common for OEM as prime installs (ie Poma, Doppelmayr). As sub, it's not nearly as common, especially if the terrain is mellow like Mittersill.

I have to imagine in this day and age where time=$$ that there's some significant weighing of the amount of time it would have taken to 1st install a work road upto all the towers and then the amount of time it would have taken to "drag" the cement truck up and down multiple times to get all of the tower pad pours done vs. multiple "quick" flights of the concrete bucket from a much easier to access for a fully loaded concrete truck base area/landing zone vs. the added cost of the chopper.

Plus I'd imagine from an installation perspective where they need to get those pads poured by a target date to allow for full curing of the concrete before construction can proceed, that not having to worry about potentially having to "drag" that concrete truck up what during the planning stages of the install be a muddy work road *if* we had a wet summer eliminates a variable or two from the equation also.

 

[threecy]

I have to imagine in this day and age where time=$$ that there's some significant weighing of the amount of time it would have taken to 1st install a work road upto all the towers and then the amount of time it would have taken to "drag" the cement truck up and down multiple times to get all of the tower pad pours done vs. multiple "quick" flights of the concrete bucket from a much easier to access for a fully loaded concrete truck base area/landing zone vs. the added cost of the chopper.

Plus I'd imagine from an installation perspective where they need to get those pads poured by a target date to allow for full curing of the concrete before construction can proceed, that not having to worry about potentially having to "drag" that concrete truck up what during the planning stages of the install be a muddy work road *if* we had a wet summer eliminates a variable or two from the equation also.

It all goes back to the bid process, which was started quite late and I don't think was geared toward a non-OEM install. There are some really talented crews out there, but due to the dramatically smaller lift market (vs. 15 years ago), they're much harder to come by. One crew in particular from Colorado who has done work for PR and UTP was able to install at least four lifts in two states in the summer of 2003 on time, without air support, and with no issues. Towing a concrete truck up is nowhere near the production or cost of bringing in a chopper, and the number of day needed is actually quite similar (but, you're not at the mercy of the weather nearly as much).

 

[bigbob]

I was in the area when the chopper was hauling the concrete. They wasted no time in loading that bucket and unloading it. A very busy day on the mountain. Don't forget, part of this was on National Forest land, or did the state take ownership? It has been very wet up in the mnts this summer compared to the coast, getting a truck up there would not be easy, let alone cutting work roads in to each base. This was to be a minimal impact project. I think they method employed was the right one.

 

[threecy]

Don't forget, part of this was on National Forest land, or did the state take ownership?

State property. Landswap was completed a few years ago.

It has been very wet up in the mnts this summer compared to the coast

It's been very dry up in the Whites this summer - much drier than the last three.

getting a truck up there would not be easy, let alone cutting work roads in to each base. This was to be a minimal impact project.

There is a work road that curves around the lift line all the way to the top of the lift that they've used to drive equipment up to build forms, drop old towers, and remove the summit terminal. They've also had equipment on the Taft Trail above the lift.

 

[Smellytele]

As noted with a bid process they could not count on a dry summer now could they? I guess they could have said if dry do it this way for this price - if wet do it this way for this price. Looking at the pictures in the beginning of this thread don't look all that dry.

 

[Newpylong]

Hindsight is 20/20 I guess. I am sure there was a reason why they're doing it the way they're doing it and the "armchair" lift installers aren't privy to all the info...

 

[riverc0il]

There is a work road that curves around the lift line all the way to the top of the lift that they've used to drive equipment up to build forms, drop old towers, and remove the summit terminal. They've also had equipment on the Taft Trail above the lift.

I am very familiar with Mittersill. Unless they cut open some trails, there are a few pitches around the liftline that would be extremely difficult for a large truck to navigate. Specifically, the part of the liftline where the tbar line exits onto the traverse. That area is very steep and narrow. I would imagine they would have a really difficult time getting large trucks up there. After you're up that pitch, there is the cut through to Skyline that would get you around to the top and you could get down most of liftline from the top. There originally were no towers on the steepest pitch of liftline though there was a tower at the top, that could be accessible. The crux would be getting trucks up the pitch at the traverse just below mid-mountain where things go from flat to not so flat. Maybe with the liftline widening they could have adjusted that area.

Is using a helo for the towers and concrete paid for as a package with the new lift install price?

 

[bigbob]

I am very familiar with Mittersill. Unless they cut open some trails, there are a few pitches around the liftline that would be extremely difficult for a large truck to navigate. Specifically, the part of the liftline where the tbar line exits onto the traverse. That area is very steep and narrow. I would imagine they would have a really difficult time getting large trucks up there. After you're up that pitch, there is the cut through to Skyline that would get you around to the top and you could get down most of liftline from the top. There originally were no towers on the steepest pitch of liftline though there was a tower at the top, that could be accessible. The crux would be getting trucks up the pitch at the traverse just below mid-mountain where things go from flat to not so flat. Maybe with the liftline widening they could have adjusted that area.

Is using a helo for the towers and concrete paid for as a package with the new lift install price?

I am sure the bid included the chopper in the quote, the state bought a finished lift ready to run. Contractors can choose which ever form of construction they feel will work to get the job completed and price accordingly. This job was awarded to the low bidder who had to meet the job specifications. I wonder if these are public knowledge. Since Threecy has so much time maybe he should contact one of his friends and get a copy and read them.

 

[bigbob]

State property. Landswap was completed a few years ago.


It's been very dry up in the Whites this summer - much drier than the last three.


There is a work road that curves around the lift line all the way to the top of the lift that they've used to drive equipment up to build forms, drop old towers, and remove the summit terminal. They've also had equipment on the Taft Trail above the lift.

Maybe on your side of the state! I am an excavation contractor working a thousand feet or so from the base of Mittersill. It rained on and off on Wednesday, just about to my job site. A section of ledge on one of the trails was wet, your pictures showed lots of muddy trails up on the mountain. Try getting a 72,000 lb / $200,000.00 truck up step slopes safely with wet crete in it, you got a CDL drivers license?? Ever drive a truck before? I have pulled out a few stuck all wheel drive concrete trucks with a dozer over the years on flat ground, you ever done that?? This is not the arid west, it does rain here, and has been over in the Franconia are this summer. I am sure if Dopp/cetec thought they could tailgate off the truck they would of kept the chopper money in their pockets!

 

[Puck it]

Guys,

IT is not point in arguing with this guy. He po'ed about the cost and how it affects the taxes in NH. Just let it go. Everything makes sense, but him.

 

[Smellytele]

Guys,

IT is not point in arguing with this guy. He po'ed about the cost and how it affects the taxes in NH. Just let it go. Everything makes sense, but him.

+1

 

[deadheadskier]

Guys,

IT is not point in arguing with this guy. He po'ed about the cost and how it affects the taxes in NH. Just let it go. Everything makes sense, but him.

$2 a resident

if it were managed properly; coulda been a buck fitty

 

[threecy]

I am very familiar with Mittersill. Unless they cut open some trails, there are a few pitches around the liftline that would be extremely difficult for a large truck to navigate. Specifically, the part of the liftline where the tbar line exits onto the traverse. That area is very steep and narrow. I would imagine they would have a really difficult time getting large trucks up there. After you're up that pitch, there is the cut through to Skyline that would get you around to the top and you could get down most of liftline from the top. There originally were no towers on the steepest pitch of liftline though there was a tower at the top, that could be accessible. The crux would be getting trucks up the pitch at the traverse just below mid-mountain where things go from flat to not so flat. Maybe with the liftline widening they could have adjusted that area.

Is using a helo for the towers and concrete paid for as a package with the new lift install price?

You don't need to park the concrete truck next to the form in order to pour it.

Chopper cost is included in the $2.6M contract.

 

[Puck it]

You don't need to park the concrete truck next to the form in order to pour it.

Chopper cost is included in the $2.6M contract.

It sounds like you can do a better then the experts. You should start your own lift company then. You would be rolling in the $$$$$$

 

[bobbutts]

It sounds like you can do a better then the experts. You should start your own lift company then. You would be rolling in the $$$$$$

Stop with the damn Threecy stalking.. Like it or not he has the knowledge and makes informative posts.

Put him on ignore, don't read his posts, whatever..