Mount Snow 2009/2010

[Newpylong]

According to the Mount Snow passholders site, Mount Snow will be removing the age old, "upper, lower" trail designations for this season. Very interesting...

 

[billski]

According to the Mount Snow passholders site, Mount Snow will be removing the age old, "upper, lower" trail designations for this season. Very interesting...

They've probably invented some new scheme which splits it into three so they can get their trail count up there with the bad boys :idea:

 

[Glenn]

They've probably invented some new scheme which splits it into three so they can get their trail count up there with the bad boys :idea:

They're not big into trail count; they most report on percentage open or acreage. :wink:


Anyone notice the new trail maps? The woods ares areas aren't really marked or labeled.

 

[drjeff]

They've probably invented some new scheme which splits it into three so they can get their trail count up there with the bad boys :idea:

Nope, the '09-10 trail count went DOWN from 101 to 80! Has it's pro's and cons obviously. Mid season - a good, honest thing IMHO - kind of like how Stowe USED to do it (1 trail is 1 trail reguardless of how many times it intersects with another).

Early/Late season - can cause some issues, as when an upper section of a trail is open, the whole trail will be listed as open which I can see causing some confusion/angst. Bottomline though is the PRIMARY stat that Mount Snow uses these days to report the volume of trails open is acreage, with the actually trail count be the secondary number.

Such a tough thing, trailcount/acreage/upper/lower/etc to come up with a system that is honest and easy for "Joe Q Public" to understand.

 

[vlewis]

Trail Count

I'm glad that this topic is getting some conversation going. We have changed a lot on our trail map this year and our new count is 80 trails. We feel that this is a more accurate count of a trail actually being a trail. The goal is transparency, when we report something you know its right. We started this process last year by switching the way we report to acreage and percent open. This is the next step in the process.

Someone also noticed that our tree trails are no longer marked. This year the trees are always open. The reason for this is that, while we hand clear trees and brush in some tree sections, we do not maintain all tree terrain (we cannot groom or make snow in the trees) so marking them as a trail is not accurate. Tree skiing/riding is for experts only and guests need to determine if conditions in the trees are suitable for them to handle.

We're very excited for this winter and are hoping to start making some snow soon so keep and eye on our website.

-Vinnie

 

[Glenn]

Excellent info. Thanks Vinnie. :beer:

 

[billski]

The goal is transparency, when we report something you know its right. We started this process last year by switching the way we report to acreage and percent open. This is the next step in the process.
..
Someone also noticed that our tree trails are no longer marked. This year the trees are always open. The reason for this is that, while we hand clear trees and brush in some tree sections, we do not maintain all tree terrain (we cannot groom or make snow in the trees) so marking them as a trail is not accurate. Tree skiing/riding is for experts only and guests need to determine if conditions in the trees are suitable for them to handle.

-Vinnie

Vinnie, Thanks for responding. This is clearly a breath of fresh "cold" air. Very positive.

I've got mixed feelings about the woods marking. There are woods and there are woods. Experts and Experts. While one may be an expert on the maintained trails, they can still be a rank amateur in the woods. Ya gotta learn somewhere. I would advocate toward a selected group of marked woods paths (let's call them "recommended routes.") Not official trails, but something you can try and know you're not going to get into an interesting situation, like a 10 foot gully or snowmaking pipes that need to be scaled or coming out down the road from the resort. I know many people unwilling to try woods for precisely that reason.

Yeah, one could argue that you have to be game for that kind of stuff going into it, but I'm also looking at skier retention over time. For some people like me, skiing on marked trails simply got boring. Almost so boring that I didn't want to go back. I couldn't find any powder, there were too many people, blah, blah, all the usual reasons. I'd like to see each and every resort prosper, so I'm willing to give a little to get there. There are plenty of stashes that will always remain that way.

I like to keep secrets as much as anyone, but I believe there should be some minimal number of places that woods-never-evers can try out, close to marked trails, so bailing out is easy. At some resorts, there are woods on the map and woods off the map. Keeps everyone happy. It doesn't even have to be on the map, per say. Could a note somewhere, "for those who want to try woods skiing, we suggest going between trail x and y."

By the way, I love the woods at Mt. Snow. The only reason I quit doing them each day is because my ski partner had enough and wanted back on the groomers. Otherwise I'd never come out.

Thanks again.

b

 

[reefer]

I'm glad that this topic is getting some conversation going. We have changed a lot on our trail map this year and our new count is 80 trails. We feel that this is a more accurate count of a trail actually being a trail. The goal is transparency, when we report something you know its right. We started this process last year by switching the way we report to acreage and percent open. This is the next step in the process.

Someone also noticed that our tree trails are no longer marked. This year the trees are always open. The reason for this is that, while we hand clear trees and brush in some tree sections, we do not maintain all tree terrain (we cannot groom or make snow in the trees) so marking them as a trail is not accurate. Tree skiing/riding is for experts only and guests need to determine if conditions in the trees are suitable for them to handle.

We're very excited for this winter and are hoping to start making some snow soon so keep and eye on our website.

-Vinnie

Thanks for the input Vinnie.
Did they try to clear out some of the stuff that fell during the ice storm last year? Things were quite messy especially Sap Tapper and Fantastics?
Also, I know there are a few of us that would gladly come up and volunteer for a weekend to help clear things up - under mountain ops guidance of course, sort of what MRG does. Has this ever been considered?
I hope Mt. Snow stays in tune with the "tree skiing" boom that is going on throughout the Northeast at places like Whiteface, Sugarbush, and Saddleback to name a few.
It is definitely an attraction that keeps me coming to Mount Snow.
Keith

 

[chrisrunsi]

+1 on loving the mt. snow woods. Had an epic day last year in late Feb early March. It was some sort of holiday week I think. Storm rolled in saturday night and got heavy as sunday continued. Most people headed home early to beat the worst of the storm but we stuck it out and had a good 12 inches of mainly untouched tree powder. Went down as one of my best days in the last couple years.

 

[vlewis]

We do not plan on marking any sort of tree skiing area this year. Our staff needs to communicate some of the options to our guests. What I like about this is it gives us the opportunity to have a conversation about their skiing ability and direct them to a tree skiing area more suitable for their level.

I'm going to have to get back to you about what has been cleared out of the woods from the ice storm last December. I'll get in touch with our mountain manager and let you know. Thanks.

-Vinnie

 

[reefer]

We do not plan on marking any sort of tree skiing area this year. Our staff needs to communicate some of the options to our guests. What I like about this is it gives us the opportunity to have a conversation about their skiing ability and direct them to a tree skiing area more suitable for their level.

I'm going to have to get back to you about what has been cleared out of the woods from the ice storm last December. I'll get in touch with our mountain manager and let you know. Thanks.

-Vinnie

Thanks again Vinnie. I love the "no-marking" part.
The beginners can stay over at Carinthia. Claim Jumper is very visible form the high speed quad and a perfect spot for entry level woods skiers..........I believe this happens already! Same with the Boonies and Frontier on the main face.
I don't mind the extra obstacles the ice storm dropped.......just taking away some good lines. Thought I would ask.

 

[drjeff]

We do not plan on marking any sort of tree skiing area this year. Our staff needs to communicate some of the options to our guests. What I like about this is it gives us the opportunity to have a conversation about their skiing ability and direct them to a tree skiing area more suitable for their level.

I'm going to have to get back to you about what has been cleared out of the woods from the ice storm last December. I'll get in touch with our mountain manager and let you know. Thanks.

-Vinnie

Vinnie, if I bought you say a whole slew of beers, all season long, could I convince you NOT to have the staff recommend certain tree areas? :lol: :beer:

 

[vlewis]

Vinnie, if I bought you say a whole slew of beers, all season long, could I convince you NOT to have the staff recommend certain tree areas? :lol: :beer:

Nice try! I don't see that happening but Guinness is my favorite beer, feel free to buy me some any time just for being an all around great guy.

 

[MommaBear]

This year the trees are always open.

I believe that was the policy last year as well. Question that came up for us - if Olympic is roped off, can the Trials still be accessed without reprecussion? From where we enter, we had to duck the rope quite a few times to get to them (since Olympic was closed so often).

 

[Glenn]

First in line for any "handouts" for firewood...err "blowdowns" that come out of said tree areas. :beer:

 

[drjeff]

Nice try! I don't see that happening but Guinness is my favorite beer, feel free to buy me some any time just for being an all around great guy.

Consider it a done deal then at some point this season, I'll pretend to be Irish for a little while in Cuzzins!

 

[billski]

We do not plan on marking any sort of tree skiing area this year. Our staff needs to communicate some of the options to our guests. What I like about this is it gives us the opportunity to have a conversation about their skiing ability and direct them to a tree skiing area more suitable for their level.

-Vinnie

Perfect!

 

[billski]

I believe that was the policy last year as well. Question that came up for us - if Olympic is roped off, can the Trials still be accessed without reprecussion? From where we enter, we had to duck the rope quite a few times to get to them (since Olympic was closed so often).

I always find it's beneficial to talk to patrol, since they love skiing too, and are fairly reasonable about it at most resorts. At one unnamed area, the top of a glade access was roped off at the top because it was an ice cliff, but an unmarked cut-in slightly below the ledges led to simply delightful goods and was perfectly fine with patrol. Every patrol seems to have a slightly different philosophy, and one day it's good another day its verbotten. It's good to be in the know.

 

[vlewis]

Thanks for the input Vinnie.
Did they try to clear out some of the stuff that fell during the ice storm last year? Things were quite messy especially Sap Tapper and Fantastics?
Also, I know there are a few of us that would gladly come up and volunteer for a weekend to help clear things up - under mountain ops guidance of course, sort of what MRG does. Has this ever been considered?
I hope Mt. Snow stays in tune with the "tree skiing" boom that is going on throughout the Northeast at places like Whiteface, Sugarbush, and Saddleback to name a few.
It is definitely an attraction that keeps me coming to Mount Snow.
Keith

I spoke with our mountain manager about clearing out some of the fallen brush from the ice storm, here is what he told me:

We have been knocking down the deadfall. We are also sending in the hand mowing crew on our usual rotation- Every 2-3 years a tree skiing area gets cut with a brush saw, depending on undergrowth.

 

[reefer]

I spoke with our mountain manager about clearing out some of the fallen brush from the ice storm, here is what he told me:

We have been knocking down the deadfall. We are also sending in the hand mowing crew on our usual rotation- Every 2-3 years a tree skiing area gets cut with a brush saw, depending on undergrowth.

Thanks again. Hopefully I'll have a trip report sooner than later...................last couple of years the woods have been great even before Christmas. Those previous picks are from 12/21/08!
I'll let you know when I'm coming up so I can buy you a Guinness too. You'll have to bar hop because unlike drjeff, I'm more of a mellow Timberhouse guy - hanging out with Leo and Alice.......................