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Need Clothing and Ski Lesson advice...

R

rdmpe

Guest
Hi all,
We will be in Mont Tremblant from Feb. 9 - Feb. 14. I have a couple of questions...

Ski lessons:
I have two boys, 6 & 8 yrs old. They have never seen snow (we live in Florida). I signed them up for 2 hour private lessons at about $330 CDN. It is pretty expensive for my budget but I can manage it. The thing is that I want them to start off correctly so that they can have fun rather than struggle with no instruction. Any of you have kids that took lessons, group or private? Knowing my six year old, I think group lessons for him would be a waste of money. He will need somebody to knock him on the head so that he'll pay attention! So are the private instructors for kids pretty good?

Cold Weather Clothing:
It has been very cold up there off an on, with some daily highs well below zero F. We are trying to get prepared without spending thousands...
What we have:
- Kamik and Sorel boots rated to -25F or -40F
- Midweight polypropylene long underwear
- Wool socks (some ski socks, some just general wool socks)
- Polyester fleece (200 weight) pant and top for mid layer
- ski bib/pants and pretty good ski jackets w/hoods
- fleece balaclava
- good gloves (adult) and mittens (kids) w/gortex
What we may need (?)
- Will three layers be enough? longjohns/fleece/outer wear ... If not, what else, cotton shirts under the fleece? Extra jacket over the fleece ? or ??
- The kids don't have goggles
- We don't have those neoprene things that go over the mouth/nose
- We don't have any of those chemical hand/foot warmer packs. I thought we might want to buy a box of them ahead of time rather than buying them at Tremblant. Do they work?? Should I buy a box of them?? Do they last a while??

Any other advice on lessons, clothing, etc. would be appreciated. It looks like it may be INSANELY cold for us Floridians who are cold if it is below 60F !!
 

Charlie Schuessler

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I've found semi-private instruction for small kids work very well....just don't you be there!

Your clothing list looks good. Kids goggles can be picked up anywhere and Candian Exchange is favorable...

Chemical heaters shelf-life is not a lifetime, buy what you need when you need it, they're good for a couple hours each.

Most places rent helmets as well as the boot/ski/pole package.

Go have fun!
 

ctenidae

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Avoid cotton. Period.
As far as layers are concerned, err on the side of overabundance. You can always take clothes off.
For serious cold, I usually go four layers- wicking underlayer, light and tight fleece, heavier fleece, jacket.
Mostly, since coming from Florida you're not really prepared for that kind of cold, go ahead and be ready to head in to warm up as soon as you start to get the tingle in the toes. You'll be a lot happier if you never let yourself get to teeth-chattering levels. Especially for the kids.
Get goggles for the kids, too.


My .02
 

ChileMass

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A recommendation - if you can still cancel, consider putting your kids in a group lesson with other kids of similar age and skiing experience. My personal opinion is that group lessons are just a lot more fun and they are certainly less expensive.

In a private lesson, if the instructor is having a bad day or is just not that much fun, or has trouble communicating in English, it can be really, really boring for kids and they might bum out. In a group, kids have other kids to emulate and pal around with, the instructors are more like schoolteachers since it's a group, and there's a lot less whining cuz kids don't want to look wimpy in front of their peers. My kids got better a lot faster in group lessons because they were pushed (figuratively) to perform by the other kids in the class. Plus, the kids will likely make some friends they can hang with, thereby giving Mom & Dad a little break to enjoy your vacation, too......been there, done that.......have fun!
 

gladerider

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rdmpe said:
Any of you have kids that took lessons, group or private?

rdmpe, i have two girls, 8 & 6.5. i put both of them in ski school in the past 2 years when i was up there. however, i never tried private lessons. my girls always are in the monday-thursday 9:30-2:30 program. i think i pay about $700.
so far, tremblant ski school worked for me and my daughters. they seem to like it and i can see their improvement every year. i tried at least 3 other ski programs all over US, Europe. So far, i like the one up there the most. i also heard good things about Smugglers Notch and Okemo, but did not try them.
--
last year during the presidents weekend, the first day of skiing was on a monday for us. it was about -30F or so. i was worried for my girls. but, the instructor did a good job. they were fine when i went to pick them up. luckly, the weather warmed up from the second day.
--
for the warmth, my girls have ski gloves with lining in them. the lining comes off separately. columbia makes them. but then, my girls are used to jersey cold.
--
also, when ever i travel up there, i get a traveler's insurance with ski activity clause. REMEMBER, canada is a foreign country. your health insurance may not work. i buy it online for about $150.
-
have fun......
 

RISkier

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Overall, the clothing looks pretty good. I'd echo the no cotton suggestion, if cotton gets wet you can forget it. Make sure everything is either wool or some kind of wicking fabric. Modern base layers combined with fleece are really remarkable. I'd also 2nd the chemical toe and hand warmers. If I were buying stuff for use in very cold weather I'd start with a base layer made from Polartec Power Stretch. Simply the warmest base layer I've found. Indeed, I find it too warm unless it's brutally cold. Unfortunately, the stuff is not cheap so I'd probably just add a light fleece under the 200 wt. Stay warm and have fun!
 
B

beswift

Guest
No matter what you do or wear, you will feel the cold. I've been dealing with it all my life, and I still feel it no matter how good my clothing is. Only an Eskimo could be better qualified than I am to deal with the cold. (And right now I am glued to the fire in my fireplace!!!) Nevertheless, I am still trying to find the best clothing to keep warm. I still get caught wearing cotton underwear (not long) sometimes as it feels the best. I only use silk around 0 degrees Celsius. It works great, then. If the temps are warmer, it retains too much moisture. Colder, it isn't all that warm. The only trouble with cotton is that it retains moisture and loses heat when wet. Polypro repells moisture, but it can be rough on the skin. it isn't all that warm, either. Wool stays warm when it gets wet but cotton doesn't. If you are going into the backcountry for a long period, you should be wearing a lot of wool. Otherwise, Polarfleece suffices quite well. I'm still not sure if I would take Polar fleece instead of Wool into the BC, but I wear a lot of it. I also like Polyester sweaters and long johns. It's plenty warm enough, doesn't soak like wool and certainly doesn't itch. Thermax is the best. Polypro keeps you dry and, wicks moisture to the wool layer so I like blends with it. I wear it on cold days for cross-country, but have given it up for Thermax for downhill. Thermax, a polyester fiber, stays dry and also is an insulator. Your outer layer has to work to both keep the heat in and the wind or snow out. However, when skiing you can dress too warmly and the outer layer keeps your moisture in. That's not very comfortable. Down will act in a thermostatic way, but if it is in a nylon shell it doesn't block the wind or the air that whistles by you at downhill speeds. My first good purchase for skiing was a ski bib. In the West where there is a lot of powder, they are indespensible. In Canada, though, they aren't as crucial. The important thing to remember is that you aren't going to be exploring the Artic for weeks, you won't be leaving the proximity of the lodge for long and you aren't trying to be a hero. Try and pick up a chill-choker (stay away from scarfs, they tangle) for your throat. I also recommend Mittens over Gloves. Get a good heavy wool hat, too. It's odd, but there has always been a big difference between what the Canadian Indians (Cree, Blackfeet and others) wore and what the Eskimos wore. One thing they never have gotten into was Plastic, especially plastic helmuts. Sealskin, Deerskin, Fur, all have their purpose in keeping one warm in the winter. Lastly if you can't pick up some seal fat or whale blubber, buy a jar of Petroleum Jelly. If pasted on your face they will prevent frost bite.
 

bigbog

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Hi rdmpe,
a few $.01's worth on a few issues.....
Ditch the cotton!
Try two layers of 100wt fleece instead of the simgle 200wt layer....definitely with the skin-wicking layer underneath!....(Polypro, Thermax, Polartec Power Stretch(I've seen this one!)) Overheating is the most uncomfortable & dangerous....and a really dense layer of fleece can do that...but then it may be just right for under -10F...
The "Hotronics" battery-powered boot warmers put a thin pad beneath the footbed...battery hitches on somewhere... I've communicated with a patroller in Vail who swears by it..... ...but basically, as mentioned....keep your core warm and the heart will do it's best to heat the extremities...
$.01.. 8)
 
T

tfanmom

Guest
Tremblant Trip

Our son-in-law learned to ski at Mt. Tremblant in 1998, and although he obviously was not in kid's lessons, he did have to start on the same small hill with the same conveyor belt lift! He was a total newbie at the time, and he is now a fast and accomplished expert skier who is not afraid to tackle any slope at any resort. He gives tremendous credit to the Mt. Tremblant ski school and the instructor he had there. You are to be commended for providing your kids with the opportunity to learn in such an environment instead of following so many Floridians to the mountains of North Carolina!
However, Mt. Tremblant can be brutally cold, and in fact it is the coldest place we have EVER skied! I suggest that you definitely invest in the :p face masks that cover the cheeks. When we were at Tremblant, everyone was given the warning that NO patch of skin should be left exposed due to the danger of frostbite or frostnip within 20 seconds of exposure. Otherwise, you are well-prepared with clothing and gear. I do suggest that you all use helmets, and those are available for rent. Have a wonderful time!
 

skidon

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I'm trying to remember all the things you asked about..... Kid's group lessons can actually work out better than private lessons. Kids like being around other kids and will tend to imitate them, so they learn faster. I was at Waterville Valley once, and saw a group of little kids following an instructor. The instuctor caught an edge and fell, and the kids all fell too - on top of the instructor! Also, if one kid sees that the others are having fun, he or she will tend to have fun too. As far as clothing - you didn't mention helmets, and I'd recommend them, at least for the kids. The kids should definitely have goggles too. The chemical heaters DO work, and if you buy them beforehand, you'll save money by not paying a premium for them at the mountain. Your basic clothing system sounded fine otherwise. If you're skiing multiple, consecutive days, it's important to make sure that everything is DRY before the next time out on the snow. This is especially important for the ski boots. Many inns and resorts have boot dryers, and if yours does, make sure you use them. If not, make sure you open the boots up and put them in a warm place with good air circulation overnight. DO NOT put them close to a source of high radiant heat, like a wood stove! You'll melt them...
 
B

beswift

Guest
bigbog said:
The "Hotronics" battery-powered boot warmers put a thin pad beneath the footbed...battery hitches on somewhere... I've communicated with a patroller in Vail who swears by it.....
I've got it ,and it isn't so impressive below zero as they want you to think. Not only that, you have these large battery packs to worry about. It costs too much IMHO I also got a message that they often don't last more than 5 seasons.
bigbog said:
Try two layers of 100wt fleece instead of the simgle 200wt layer....definitely with the skin-wicking layer underneath!....(Polypro, Thermax, Polartec Power Stretch(I've seen this one!)) Overheating is the most uncomfortable & dangerous....and a really dense layer of fleece can do that...but then it may be just right for under -10F...
Thermax and Polypro are birds of a different feather. Polypro doesn't have insulating properties and needs another layer of wool or polarfleece. Thermax works all by itself. I often wear a Thermax Turtle and Jacket or shell. I also have this incredibly warm Thermax crew necked top with a wool layer which is often too hot. The Mayer brothers did an add for Thermax and were filmed riding a chairlift with nothing more than there Thermax long johns. I can believe it. It is very easy to overheat if you have a Gortex or Entrant shell over wool or fleece. It's very complicated finding the right balance. With a lot of thin layers, you can peal them off as long as you have somewhere to put these expensive garments.
 
R

rdmpe

Guest
Our room has a washer and dryer, so that 'll help with the clothes. I'm not sure about putting the boot liners in the dryer, probably not a good idea...

What do hand warmer packs usually go for? I just bought 50 pair (100 total) off ebay for $40 incl. shipping. Hopefully not a rip off at 80 cents per pair. Expiration date of 2009 so they should be fresh enough... How do you keep them in your boot? Can you tape them to your sock by the edges? I assume I don't want to cover them with tape since they need some air to activate the heat. Maybe they are already sticky on one side? The brand will either be "heatmax hot hands 2" or "hot rods" which they say are the same product with different packaging.

Thanks for all the great advice and keep it coming!
 

ctenidae

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There's been a lot of great advice here (I've even picked up a few bits and pieces), but one bit should be mentioned again- Go have fun.

Don't get too wrapped up in gear and worrying about it. Be sensible, make sure you've got exposed skin covered, and have sufficient gear, but remember- you'll be near the lodge. Don't be afraid to go in for a cup of hot chocolate or something. If I've taught my wife anything at all valuable, it's to chill out. You can get so caught up in how many layers and where'd I put those heaters and who's got a scarf and which goggles are you taking and drying boots and changing pants and stripping layers and and and and...Eventually you forget what you went out there for. Overall, the best way to feel warm is to not think about the cold.

Your'e going skiing. Go ski.
 
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