I say let them exist and tax the ever living fuck out of them. At the same time give incentives to people that rent to workforce. The ski areas should be cutting passes for that kinda thing too. Tahoe was a fucking shitshow in this aspect. For my 7 years I got rent with my own room and bathroom from a family that became 2nd family but I won the fucking lottery on that one. I cooked some serious grub for that.
-
Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!
You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!
New Ski House for Rent
- Thread starter Lucky Bear Lodge
- Start date
I actually stayed in a 3 bedroom Airbnb in North Troy last spring on a Jay trip that I had been to a party at 18 years prior when I lived in Burlington. Pretty wild de ja vu walking in. It was $900 all in for three nights in April and about 12 miles from Jay. I'm staying in something similar next April for the Equinox. Similar price.
These types of places were renting for like $750 a month back then. I looked at some because of how cheap they were and close to skiing. However , I realized I didn't want to deal with the commute when I was often at the hotel I was working at until midnight only having to be back at 6AM. So I rented a crappy one bedroom in downtown Burlington for $850.
These types of cheap year round rentals in towns like Troy, Eden, Wolcott etc. were commonplace back then. Now they're almost entirely being used as STRs. They absolutely are crushing affordable housing in vacation states. I say states vs towns because STRs are no longer confined to resort areas. Great for travelers , especially families , but sucks for workers just barely trying to survive.
These types of places were renting for like $750 a month back then. I looked at some because of how cheap they were and close to skiing. However , I realized I didn't want to deal with the commute when I was often at the hotel I was working at until midnight only having to be back at 6AM. So I rented a crappy one bedroom in downtown Burlington for $850.
These types of cheap year round rentals in towns like Troy, Eden, Wolcott etc. were commonplace back then. Now they're almost entirely being used as STRs. They absolutely are crushing affordable housing in vacation states. I say states vs towns because STRs are no longer confined to resort areas. Great for travelers , especially families , but sucks for workers just barely trying to survive.
No. Absolutely not. A private property owner has no responsibility other than to pay taxes and take care of their own property. It is not a private property owner's responsibility to provide their own property for cheap just to subsidize other businesses that don't pay their staff enough to be able to live . There are some communities that simply wouldn't exist period without STR. Pretending STR is a new thing is silly. It has existed for decades in one form or another. If you think for a second that resort/tourist communities can survive without STR, you're wrong.
BodeMiller1
Well-known member
I live in Barre, VT. One of the reasons I left Concord, NH was huge tracks of apartments and thus Airbnb are owned by slumlords out of state (or in state).
You're better off converting apartments to short term rentals. If you evict someone(s) they will trash the place most of the time. So, then you have to: paint, patch holes, new carpet maybe a refrigerator, etc. Pissed off neighbors. Seems you get a better class of people with short term (except for porn producers).
Rooming houses will always be a mess. Concord has fallen, read the Concord Patch....
2planks2coasts
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2017
- Messages
- 407
- Points
- 43
Nobody said anything about cheap. But you are wrong if you think resort communities need STRs to survive. Short term lodging should take place in hotels, resorts and purpose built condo buildings in areas zoned for that kind of activity. Not in residential neighborhoods zoned for actual living.
If they were able to get the same amount of money from an LTR, then they wouldn't be doing the STR. So if you're saying someone should be using their private property for housing, you're implying they should be charging less than the STR price. Personally I'd rather STR in my town rather than hotels. From a skiing perspective, the lack of a lot of hotels is one of the exact things I love about the Sugarbush/Mad River Valley area compared to an area like Killington.
Let's use the Jersey Shore as an example of an area that needs STR to survive. Please explain how Seaside Park, Ortley Beach, Chadwick Beach, Normandy Beach or any of the towns on LBI would survive if STR didn't exist (and maybe we have different definitions of STR, but to me weekly rentals fall in that category as well). These towns have relied on people renting individual homes/bungalows for decades. There's no major hotels in these areas. The handful of "resorts" and motels that do exist in these areas of the Jersey Shore are hardly enough to accommodate a fraction of the people that visit the Jersey Shore.
skef
Active member
So, hit the gym and then watch the eclipse?
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Prices are already coming down a bit in the places that went up the most. I think the real movement only comes once the Fed gets its recession. The warning signs are many. It being cheaper to rent than to buy in most places is a warning sign. It being cheaper to buy a new home than an existing home in many places is a warning sign. Credit card debt increasing is a warning sign. Automobile loan delinquencies skyrocketing is a warning sign. The higher mortgage rates simply need time to do their negative work on home prices.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Can you name two or three? Trying to think of someplace like you're suggesting and I cant think of any.
Places which are so desirable that people are clamoring for STR, but without STR they couldn't even exist as towns? Cant think of any such animal. The home prices would drop some for sure, but they'd all sell and be owner occupied.
IceEidolon
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2017
- Messages
- 584
- Points
- 63
Private property owner doesn't have an obligation beyond following the relevant local laws, sure. In many places STRs haven't yet been added to things like hotel tax or fire marshal inspection or zoning, but let's ignore that - within five years, the worst affected areas will have largely caught up, legally speaking.
The bigger issue is in many communities existing SFH and ADU stock is turning into STR. First off, there's no hotel permitting for this. No planning consideration, no bed base tracking. Job creation is a wash, probably, but job quality I'd guess is lower for the same number of guests. More mobile maid services and part time work. And instead of demand justifying, say, a new 160 bed hotel, 100 beds get removed from the community (either season rentals or ft/yr tenants) while the peak demand is unmet. If STR is allowed, space-limited mountain towns in particular will either gentrify and hollow out, or will channel the demand into denser forms. I'll note that a hotel is a very dense form of housing, if all you need is STR capacity. Unfortunately building that additional capacity will reduce the scarcity and therefore value of every other property in the town. So serious and rapid progress is unlikely. Some areas have had luck allowing Accessory Dwelling Units, those may be more palatable ways to add capacity for both seasonal and STR.
I already did...see my subsequent post.
BodeMiller1
Well-known member
Zoning is a HUGE problem, from shovel ready to occupancy there is too much red tape. These laws and regulations (that have the effect of law) are being looked at to streamline...
Mrs. Newsbaumb we realize you have lots of deer behind your house, but we're not going to let you hold up building 300 houses. Perhaps you should eat the deer.
Spot on, zoning is a way for bullies to keep getting what they want.
Smellytele
Well-known member
No zoning is a way for others to be bullies
ss20
Well-known member
Yep. The free money train that started chugging away 15 years ago and accelerated and accelerated culminating with the last 3 years is finally about to crash off the rails. Wayyyyyyy to much debt in the hands of consumers, businesses, and the government. We either keep inflation "crazy" high to keep kicking the can down the road in the name of "keeping the economy stable" or we take our very bitter medicine.
I think early 2024 is when we finally really do crack into a recession. The student debt repayments starting up again are the main catalyst (along with already high credit card debt), and once Wall Street sees the worst holiday shopping season in recent memory that's when the panic sets in. That's when they realize people are out of money.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Those are some of the most desirable oceanfront locations in New Jersey, which is precisely why they're STR desirable. Ban STR in any or all of them and if the owner chose to sell the home would move quickly & occupancy of the town would still be 100%.
abc
Well-known member
It’s a good example of a “non-community”.
If it’s really just a collection of STR housing, no one’s living there full time, there’s no such thing as a “community”.
Now, thing could change. Maybe some city people decided, after a few “season” to actually live there full time, they obviously could. But they‘ve already accepted the lack of “community” when they moved in. If, some years down the line, there’re enough of those folks putting down ”roots” and created their own little “community”, they should expect it to be changed by future residents also.
BodeMiller1
Well-known member
There's a happy medium. People who wrote these codes now have (or should have) regrets. I was in Fitchburg, ME and was walking out of the fair with my father and there was a trailer with all of the cars they had ever owned and all of the everything. My father said "this is why zoning is good. I'm at U.N.H. and I'm thinking where is the health inspector?
BodeMiller1
Well-known member
The Jersey shore is an excellent example of a situation where nature should be allowed to take over. More ocean less shore.It’s a good example of a “non-community”.
If it’s really just a collection of STR housing, no one’s living there full time, there’s no such thing as a “community”.
Now, thing could change. Maybe some city people decided, after a few “season” to actually live there full time, they obviously could. But they‘ve already accepted the lack of “community” when they moved in. If, some years down the line, there’re enough of those folks putting down ”roots” and created their own little “community”, they should expect it to be changed by future residents also.
I saw some stuff on T.V. and it must be true.
The Urban dictionary is a tool to understand the....
Stuffed Bears, the horror!
AdironRider
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2005
- Messages
- 3,573
- Points
- 83
Yeah, I'm going to call bullshit on any beach town needing STR's to 'survive'.
drjeff
Well-known member
Agree 100%
The STR market really doesn't affect historically busy tourist times for a local economy and has likely a nominal at best affect on the local economy during off peak times.
Just like you won;t see a ski town in early November with huge occupancies of the STR, LTR and traditional hotel markets, same thing goes for beach town in the off season
Similar threads
- Locked
