New York Skiing

[highpeaksdrifter]

With the major expansions taking place at Whiteface, Gore and Belleayre, New York skiing is going to cut into the Vermont resorts take big time. All 3 have spent big bucks on snowmaking improvements and word is getting out on their improved conditions.

WF already has the best ski town in the East in Lake Placid, both Gore and Belleayre have development in their area going on to make them more attractive as destination resorts.

We won’t get a lot of Vermonter’s coming here, but we will keep a lot more New Yorkers in their home state.

If you think I’m wrong, please tell me way.

 

[campgottagopee]

With the major expansions taking place at Whiteface, Gore and Belleayre, New York skiing is going to cut into the Vermont resorts take big time. All 3 have spent big bucks on snowmaking improvements and word is getting out on their improved conditions.

WF already has the best ski town in the East in Lake Placid, both Gore and Belleayre have development in their area going on to make them more attractive as destination resorts.

We won’t get a lot of Vermonter’s coming here, but we will keep a lot more New Yorkers in their home state.

If you think I’m wrong, please tell me way.

AMEN!!!! Agree 100%, as I said (for me) in another post I stay local (greek, whitface,gore) simply because there is no reason to head any further north than Lake Placid. Lookout Mt. will be da bomb---Gore, yikes talk about adding terrain. Belleayre I dunno nothing about it but I'm sure it's good as well.

 

[Moe Ghoul]

I'm stoked for the new runs at WF. Some of the runs were old logger trails and they should be well underway installing the lifts.

 

[hardline]

not going to to a thing for me. i got to bell like 4 or 5 times a year mostly early and late season. then to vermont. new terrain doesn't make up for the lack of snow fall. lake placid the best ski town in the east. i dont think so maybe new york but not the east coast. i also don't think this is going to make much difference to the average skier that has been going to VT for the last few years. they don't read the press and already book their trips months in advance. they may see a slight increase over the next few years but i would bet its in the 10% range and thats for the ADK's as a whole.

 

[deadheadskier]

....I would say you're definitely right HPD. It will keep more New Yorkers in New York. Some Vermonters might be happy about that fact :lol:

As much as I like Stowe for a ski town, I think you're probably right concerning Lake Placid because of the Olympic venues. I personally think Stowe has more charm and equally as impressive dining and taverns, but there probably is a greater selection of off hill activities in LP. Though I will say kicking moe. out of town is a big bummer in my book.

I would think Tremblent would get a lot of votes for apres / off hill stuff too especially given the ski in, ski out access.

It's great to hear about all their improvements. Anything that will get more people excited about the sport is good news in my book, doesn't matter where that may be.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

not going to to a thing for me. i got to bell like 4 or 5 times a year mostly early and late season. then to vermont. new terrain doesn't make up for the lack of snow fall. lake placid the best ski town in the east. i dont think so maybe new york but not the east coast. i also don't think this is going to make much difference to the average skier that has been going to VT for the last few years. they don't read the press and already book their trips months in advance. they may see a slight increase over the next few years but i would bet its in the 10% range and thats for the ADK's as a whole.

Good, lets have a civil exchange of opinions.

We've had over 200 inches each of the last 5 seasons, not northern Vt. but not bad.
Have you been to LP and if so what town is better?
How do you know skiers don't read about ski areas? :roll:
There's some little places like Titus, West and a couple more, but in the ADKs its about Whiteface and Gore.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

....I would say you're definitely right HPD. It will keep more New Yorkers in New York. Some Vermonters might be happy about that fact :lol:
.

Not the Vermonters who make their living from people buying lift tickets and all other goods and services that said ticket buyers purchase.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I'm stoked for the new runs at WF. Some of the runs were old logger trails and they should be well underway installing the lifts.

They are Moe. Concrete being poured this month, towers next month. I hope to get up Lookout this weekend and will post more shots on SKIADK.

 

[deadheadskier]

Not the Vermonters who make their living from people buying lift tickets and all other goods and services that said ticket buyers purchase.

oh, I've always thought the logic behind it was stupid. No place in New England that I've lived can be so harsh towards 'flatlanders'

 

[hardline]

Good, lets have a civil exchange of opinions.

We've had over 200 inches each of the last 5 seasons, not northern Vt. but not bad.
Have you been to LP and if so what town is better?
How do you know skiers don't read about ski areas? :roll:
There's some little places like Titus, West and a couple more, but in the ADKs its about Whiteface and Gore.

we have nothing better to do so sure.

We've had over 200 inches each of the last 5 seasons, not northern Vt. but not bad.
agreed.
no argument but the average person the see's higher snowfall totals and that where they go.

Have you been to LP and if so what town is better?
many time i worked on the ferry in btown went there many times. i have only been there 3 time in winter. as far as things for the tourist to do you are right. there is a lot of history and things to do but it isn't all sking related. it is olympic related. alot of the activities are spread out over a large area. what i like is my skiing and dinning/activities to located close to the mountain. stowe i like a lot. i like that everything is located right on the main road (for the most part). treblant for some is the best partying(not me but some).

How do you know skiers don't read about ski areas?

based up all the people that i know that i talked to about killington this past yearthey had no idea the mountain had been sold and frankly didn't care because they had already booked there trip. this is families in the 200,000 to 1,000,000 income range. they book in advance. most of the people i know have there vail trips booked a full year in advance.

There's some little places like Titus, West and a couple more, but in the ADKs its about Whiteface and Gore.

your right but they are not resorts like mt snow, killington, okemo, stratton, bush and stowe. so you are never going to get the influx of overseas tourists that vermont got this year. thats the real reason visits where up in vt this year. one of the reason's i am planing opening a business in the area. there is alot of overseas dollars comming in. in stowe alone there on any given weekend 20 to 30 busses full of britts and thats being very conservitive. stowe spent the money on overseas advertising as well as the resorts in vt. the state of ny isn't going to invest in a overseas marketing campaign.

we are comparing apples to oranges. i am just saying that there is no way that you will see the same volume that vermont got this year and next year in the ADK's. the area isn't set up to give the people what they want. which is why i said maybe a 10% increase.

what do you see as realistic number given the restrictions that NY has?

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

we have nothing better to do so sure.

We've had over 200 inches each of the last 5 seasons, not northern Vt. but not bad.
agreed.
no argument but the average person the see's higher snowfall totals and that where they go.

Have you been to LP and if so what town is better?
many time i worked on the ferry in btown went there many times. i have only been there 3 time in winter. as far as things for the tourist to do you are right. there is a lot of history and things to do but it isn't all sking related. it is olympic related. alot of the activities are spread out over a large area. what i like is my skiing and dinning/activities to located close to the mountain. stowe i like a lot. i like that everything is located right on the main road (for the most part). treblant for some is the best partying(not me but some).

How do you know skiers don't read about ski areas?

based up all the people that i know that i talked to about killington this past yearthey had no idea the mountain had been sold and frankly didn't care because they had already booked there trip. this is families in the 200,000 to 1,000,000 income range. they book in advance. most of the people i know have there vail trips booked a full year in advance.

There's some little places like Titus, West and a couple more, but in the ADKs its about Whiteface and Gore.

your right but they are not resorts like mt snow, killington, okemo, stratton, bush and stowe. so you are never going to get the influx of overseas tourists that vermont got this year. thats the real reason visits where up in vt this year. one of the reason's i am planing opening a business in the area. there is alot of overseas dollars comming in. in stowe alone there on any given weekend 20 to 30 busses full of britts and thats being very conservitive. stowe spent the money on overseas advertising as well as the resorts in vt. the state of ny isn't going to invest in a overseas marketing campaign.

we are comparing apples to oranges. i am just saying that there is no way that you will see the same volume that vermont got this year and next year in the ADK's. the area isn't set up to give the people what they want. which is why i said maybe a 10% increase.

what do you see as realistic number given the restrictions that NY has?

Good post Hard. The APA, DEC and NYS constitutional restrictions are both a blessing and a curse living/skiing inside the ADK. Park.

For this year 10% :wink: I think gas prices might keep some NYers in NY too.

 

[andyzee]

If you think I’m wrong, please tell me way.

Way, Killington is closer to the NYC area than wf, has more terrain and gets more snow. Also my guess is that Killington has more night clubs and restaurants than LP

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Way, Killington is closer to the NYC area than wf, has more terrain and gets more snow. Also my guess is that Killington has more night clubs and restaurants than LP

It's the same drive time. I assume you'll come up the Northway. I live off exit 8. It takes me 2 hours to get to both.

I don't want this to be a Kmart bash thread, but it's a different skiing experience at WF then Kmart. For me I'll take WF.

I wouldn't guess they have more then LP. Plus nite life is spread out at Kmart, you can walk a bar crawl up the main street if you want. I hardly ever go into LP in the winter. There's enough bars and places to eat for me right in Wilmington.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

With the major expansions taking place at Whiteface, Gore and Belleayre, New York skiing is going to cut into the Vermont resorts take big time. All 3 have spent big bucks on snowmaking improvements and word is getting out on their improved conditions.

WF already has the best ski town in the East in Lake Placid, both Gore and Belleayre have development in their area going on to make them more attractive as destination resorts.

We won’t get a lot of Vermonter’s coming here, but we will keep a lot more New Yorkers in their home state.

If you think I’m wrong, please tell me way.

NYers will always ski in NY but if they want variety and more natural snowfall they'll go to Vermont....Vermont gets alot of the Boston people...alot of the NYC/NJ people...and alot of the people here in Pennsyltucky..

Other than Lake Placid...there aren't many nice ski towns in NY..Hunter is kind of crappy,,Belleayre has no real town..and I'm not to sure about Gore..

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

It's the same drive time. I assume you'll come up the Northway. I live off exit 8. It takes me 2 hours to get to both.

I don't want this to be a Kmart bash thread, but it's a different skiing experience at WF then Kmart. For me I'll take WF.

I wouldn't guess they have more then LP. Plus nite life is spread out at Kmart, you can walk a bar crawl up the main street if you want. I hardly ever go into LP in the winter. There's enough bars and places to eat for me right in Wilmington.

Killington has a heck of alot more terrain than Whiteface..

 

[powderman]

NYers will always ski in NY but if they want variety and more natural snowfall they'll go to Vermont....Vermont gets alot of the Boston people...alot of the NYC/NJ people...and alot of the people here in Pennsyltucky..

Other than Lake Placid...there aren't many nice ski towns in NY..Hunter is kind of crappy,,Belleayre has no real town..and I'm not to sure about Gore..

There is Ellicottville in WNY, but Holiday Valley isn't really that good of a ski area

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

There is Ellicottville in WNY, but Holiday Valley isn't really that good of a ski area

People from Ohio drive several hours to ski Holiday Valley..

 

[Geoff]

oh, I've always thought the logic behind it was stupid. No place in New England that I've lived can be so harsh towards 'flatlanders'

What? Every tourist town in Northern New England is harsh towards 'flatlanders'. It's not a Vermont thing... it's anywhere that has a seasonal influx of affluent people. You get the same thing from locals around Winnipesaukee. You get the same thing from locals around Sebago Lake or Camden. From my personal experience, downeast coastal Maine has the most vitriol. The rich city people have completely priced people out of waterfront towns where they've lived for many generations. It's not like the resort communities in Vermont had much of a population to displace. Killington/Sherburne probably had a population of less than 50 when Preston Smith showed up in the late-1950's. Ditto Stratton/Bondville. Ditto Jay. Ludlow was a dying mill town.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think the biggest thing that could benefit of NY skiing is an additional resort in the dacks that has a strong focus on intermediates and families. Doubtful it will ever happen, but the fact that Vermont has greater clusters of different types of areas is a big draw for destination travelers. A visit to Killington offers the benefit Pico being right next door, Okemo a half hour away and MRV an hour away. A visit to Manchester puts Stratton, Snow, Bromely, Magic and Okemo all within an hours drive if not closer.

Whiteface and Gore I'm sure are GREAT areas, but improvements will only go so far in bringing in destination travelers because it's still just those two areas that are what an hour apart? In addition to more consistent snow over the years in much of Vermont (not all), I really think it's the wider variety of areas in close proximity to one another and greater ease of access to that variety from multiple areas that give it it's competitive advantage. NY will always struggle getting the Boston area skiers just as N.Conway and Maine will always struggle getting the NY skiers. Vermont being positioned in the middle is tough to compete against.

 

[deadheadskier]

What? Every tourist town in Northern New England is harsh towards 'flatlanders'. It's not a Vermont thing... it's anywhere that has a seasonal influx of affluent people. You get the same thing from locals around Winnipesaukee. You get the same thing from locals around Sebago Lake or Camden. From my personal experience, downeast coastal Maine has the most vitriol. The rich city people have completely priced people out of waterfront towns where they've lived for many generations. It's not like the resort communities in Vermont had much of a population to displace. Killington/Sherburne probably had a population of less than 50 when Preston Smith showed up in the late-1950's. Ditto Stratton/Bondville. Ditto Jay. Ludlow was a dying mill town.

Interesting

Having lived in Southern Vermont and Northern Vermont for 13 years combined and Southern Coastal Maine for three years, my experience has been that Vermont was the most vitriol. Opinions/experiences vary I guess.