New York Skiing

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

1. 3 out of 4 will be skiable. The Wilmington Trail, Lookout Below will have snow making, Hoyts won't get snowmaking till next year. Glads, at least some of that hugh area will be open this season.

My understanding is that only one trail will have snowmaking, and that's mostly due to the recent surge in raw material costs (the cost for the pipes alone have surged by 80%). Also, regarding Lookout Below, I'm pretty sure it wasn't intended to be skiable this year, but, instead, will be made skiable with the as-yet-uncut trail parallel to Hoyt's/Flume.

2. Porcupine Lodge is no biggie, it will be a nice add, but not really necessary.

True. It just seems that, after all these years, something truly extraordinary could have been done. Instead, it's merely "awesome". While things are looking up, and each year brings improvements, I just wish the expansion was tackled on a more grand scale.

Also, why haven't they yet figured out how to link the trail pod with Lift 6?

3. Dude, WF has always cut new trails and installed snow making as far as I know. They hire out when needed of course. Nobody on the trail crew was flying those helicopters the last 2 days, getting cement up the mountain for the tower bases.

True. I just think they could have gotten a better product with more outside help. I can't believe they're still blasting and grading trails that were first cut last year.

I'm sure a lot of this comes down to the budget, which can't be helped. However, while the expansion will definitely be a great thing in 3 to 5 years, IMHO, the process of putting it together is limited by NYS management (as usual).

4. WF is marketing the expansion in every ad that I know of for this season and they did alot last season too.

That may be the case, and maybe they're doing the best job they can, but, it just strikes me that not enough people know about it. A simple thing ORDA could do is have the large electronic sign in Lake Placid spread the good news.

I'm totally pleased with what they're getting down for this season. I'll bet you a beer you will be too.

Believe you me, I can't wait. What we will have is going to be great. I just think it could have been that much more....

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

My understanding is that only one trail will have snowmaking, and that's mostly due to the recent surge in raw material costs (the cost for the pipes alone have surged by 80%). Also, regarding Lookout Below, I'm pretty sure it wasn't intended to be skiable this year, but, instead, will be made skiable with the as-yet-uncut trail parallel to Hoyt's/Flume.
..

They had to cut Lookout Below to get pipe up to the Wilmington Trail. It went so well and looked so good they decided they could easily put 12 hydrants on Lookout Below and have it open with snowmaking for this season instead of waiting till next.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

They had to cut Lookout Below to get pipe up to the Wilmington Trail. It went so well and looked so good they decided they could easily put 12 hydrants on Lookout Below and have it open with snowmaking for this season instead of waiting till next.

Nice!!! Thanks for the knowledge. Awesome!

Do you know if they're going to widen the trail? It looks pretty nice and narrow right now. I'd imagine it's too narrow for snowmaking and grooming at its current width....

(HPD - Hope you don't mind, but I grabbed a couple of your shots of the Lookout Below trail from SkiADK so people here could see what we're talking/raving about.)

 

[ski63]

Wow!!! Now that looks like a traditional WF trail. Narrow and steep.

Hopefully they can get the rights to more acreage after the current expansion is over. From what I have read, they will be maxed for skiing expansion.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Wow!!! Now that looks like a traditional WF trail. Narrow and steep.

Hopefully they can get the rights to more acreage after the current expansion is over. From what I have read, they will be maxed for skiing expansion.

From what I gather, the limit in the state constitution applies to trail mileage (25 miles) and not to acreage. I think that once Lookout Mt. is completed, WF will be about one or two miles short of that limit. Also, I don't think glades are counted for purposes of the limit, which is why the huge new swath on glades don't matter for purposes of state-imposed limits.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Nice!!! Thanks for the knowledge. Awesome!

Do you know if they're going to widen the trail? It looks pretty nice and narrow right now. I'd imagine it's too narrow for snowmaking and grooming at its current width....

(HPD - Hope you don't mind, but I grabbed a couple of your shots of the Lookout Below trail from SkiADK so people here could see what we're talking/raving about.)

I've heard it will have to be widen some. It will still be narrow and very steep.

I hope to get up on Lookout tomorrow. If I do I'll post more shots at SKIADK.

From what I gather, the limit in the state constitution applies to trail mileage (25 miles) and not to acreage. I think that once Lookout Mt. is completed, WF will be about one or two miles short of that limit. Also, I don't think glades are counted for purposes of the limit, which is why the huge new swath on glades don't matter for purposes of state-imposed limits.

Only a 1/2 mile will be left, but who knows how they'll work the count out in the end. Yeah, good thing glades don't count.

 

[kcyanks1]

I've heard it will have to be widen some. It will still be narrow and very steep.

What do you mean "have to be widen[ed]"? Why would it have to be anything? Does it need to be wider for snowmaking/grooming? If so, can't they leave it natural?

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

What do you mean "have to be widen[ed]"? Why would it have to be anything? Does it need to be wider for snowmaking/grooming? If so, can't they leave it natural?

Yeah snowmaking. Believe me I understand what you're saying. I guess what they have to decide is have it open all the time or have it open only when natural conditions allow.

I'll know more tomorrow and I'll report back on this trhead.

 

[kcyanks1]

Yeah snowmaking. Believe me I understand what you're saying. I guess what they have to decide is have it open all the time or have it open only when natural conditions allow.

I'll know more tomorrow and I'll report back on this trhead.

Cool, thanks.

 

[mondeo]

There is Ellicottville in WNY, but Holiday Valley isn't really that good of a ski area

It was good enough for me growing up...

HV is what it is. Only 750' of vert, and not that many steep trails (what is steep tends to be in short bursts, like the 200' or so of 40° slope on the Wall.) But considering those limitations, it's a pretty good little hill. Well run, and well placed for some pretty good snow quality when it catches the lake effect stuff off Lake Erie. Decent variety, given the terrain it's not blessed with, with multiple terrain parks and bump runs. They even have 2 high speed quads and are adding a third for '09-'10. And night skiing.

Given that Buffalo is over 5 hours away from Belleayre, and another hour from White Face and Gore are another hour, it has its place. And it's sure a hell of a lot better than Kissing Bridge and the now defunct Ski Tamarack cry: - spent my first two years on skis there.) For 90% of skiers out there, it's more than enough, and a hell of a lot closer to home.

 

[chase]

It was good enough for me growing up...

HV is what it is. Only 750' of vert, and not that many steep trails (what is steep tends to be in short bursts, like the 200' or so of 40° slope on the Wall.) But considering those limitations, it's a pretty good little hill. Well run, and well placed for some pretty good snow quality when it catches the lake effect stuff off Lake Erie. Decent variety, given the terrain it's not blessed with, with multiple terrain parks and bump runs. They even have 2 high speed quads and are adding a third for '09-'10. And night skiing.

Given that Buffalo is over 5 hours away from Belleayre, and another hour from White Face and Gore are another hour, it has its place. And it's sure a hell of a lot better than Kissing Bridge and the now defunct Ski Tamarack cry: - spent my first two years on skis there.) For 90% of skiers out there, it's more than enough, and a hell of a lot closer to home.

I agree 100%...to a lot of people holiday valley and holimont are by far the best ski areas within four hours. Look at the all people from cleveland or toronto that own ski houses in ellicottville or are holimont members...

did you ever get over to holimont mondeo? Its a pretty cool place...i bet that some days it has the highest average skier ability of any area in the east.

 

[mondeo]

I agree 100%...to a lot of people holiday valley and holimont are by far the best ski areas within four hours. Look at the all people from cleveland or toronto that own ski houses in ellicottville or are holimont members...

did you ever get over to holimont mondeo? Its a pretty cool place...i bet that some days it has the highest average skier ability of any area in the east.

Hit Holimont a few times. For a while I was a member of the UB ski club (as a student, due to a math program I was in,) which was a pretty sweet deal. $150, and you could ski every day of the week, hitting HV, KB, and Tamarack a few times each. In later years they added Thursdays (or something like that) during the day at Holimont; I think I skipped school once to hit it up (actually parent-sanctioned skipping,) and I think one other time it was a snow day. Memory is a little hazy as it was at least 6 years ago, but I do remember it being decent. My recollection is that Holiday had better bump runs, though.

 

[chase]

Hit Holimont a few times. For a while I was a member of the UB ski club (as a student, due to a math program I was in,) which was a pretty sweet deal. $150, and you could ski every day of the week, hitting HV, KB, and Tamarack a few times each. In later years they added Thursdays (or something like that) during the day at Holimont; I think I skipped school once to hit it up (actually parent-sanctioned skipping,) and I think one other time it was a snow day. Memory is a little hazy as it was at least 6 years ago, but I do remember it being decent. My recollection is that Holiday had better bump runs, though.

Yeah holiday does have much better bumps, holimont's mogul run just aren't very steep. Holimont is unique because it takes a serious commitment to skiing to drop the 12k to become a member. This makes it so that nearly everybody at holimont is a "real" skier and its never crowded. This is a pretty big contrast to the other western NY ski hills. I have a friend that works at holimont so I can get in as a non-member. I feel like everybody at holimont is really happy just to be there, it reminds me of alta utah in that way.

 

[ski63]

While HV and Holimont are in a very nice town, Bristol beats them all w/ 1200 vert and a HSQ. The only problem w/ Bristol, nothing but a base lodge and a few condos. We'll see what future expansion brings...... 8 hrs of skiing at Bristol is a lot of vertical, they just need more variety.

 

[mondeo]

While HV and Holimont are in a very nice town, Bristol beats them all w/ 1200 vert and a HSQ. The only problem w/ Bristol, nothing but a base lodge and a few condos. We'll see what future expansion brings...... 8 hrs of skiing at Bristol is a lot of vertical, they just need more variety.

HV has an average of 180" of snow/year, Bristol 60". Plus it's another hour away from Buffalo and Toronto; if you're going that far for that little bit of extra vert, might as well go whole hog and go to one of the big guys.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

What do you mean "have to be widen[ed]"? Why would it have to be anything? Does it need to be wider for snowmaking/grooming? If so, can't they leave it natural?

Here's the deal Kcyanks. The trail is going to be about 20 feet wider. However, it's going to be done in a way that the trail will be turny and not such a straight shoot. Also they are going to approach it the same way they do Lower Mack. Grooming only when absolutely necessary, otherwise leave it alone and let it bump up.

I posted some new Lookout pics on SKIADK.

 

[powderman]

I'm a bit biased, but Greek Peak beats em' all though it's further away from Ohio and Buffalo. The terrain/glades at Greek are much more interesting than Holiday Valley's and Bristols. Holiday is a great option for Ohioans, no question there. For someone who skiied at Greek Peak though, it seemed like a mini-Okemo to me. Greek Peak only has fixed griped doubles (some are still there since I left CNY), though I'd rather wait in a lift line for an empty trail as opposed to not waiting for an overcrowded trail.

Bristol 60"

Doesn't Bristol get lake effect?

 

[chase]

HV has an average of 180" of snow/year, Bristol 60". Plus it's another hour away from Buffalo and Toronto; if you're going that far for that little bit of extra vert, might as well go whole hog and go to one of the big guys.

i have never skied bristol and would appreciate it if you (or anyone else) could anwser a few questions

if it was next to holiday valley which one would you ski?

How do the bumps compare to chute at hv?

Does bristol have anything as steep and sustained as yodeler?

Is 60 inches a year a hyperbole?

thanks

 

[powderman]

if it was next to holiday valley which one would you ski?

Bristol, not as crowded as HV

How do the bumps compare to chute at hv?

The bump run there is Meteor, which has a decent sustained pitch. I don't remember the quality of the bumps though since I haven't skied there since the mid 90s

Does bristol have anything as steep and sustained as yodeler?

Bristol isn't as steep as HV, though it's a lot more sustained

Is 60 inches a year a hyperbole?

Wouldn't be surprised, not far from Lake Ontario

How far is Bristol from Edinboro? If it isn't that far from you, I'd give it a try

 

[chase]

How far is Bristol from Edinboro? If it isn't that far from you, I'd give it a try

its about 3.5 hours from both Edinboro and Penn State. I have a friend going to school in Rochester so i'll probably get up there in the next couple years.