NY Private Catskills resorts and Towns and Countys not happy with Belleayre expansion

[ScottySkis]

So should every state and federal park in the US be put up for sale as well?

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Sure if there run as badly as Bell has been in the past. I have no problem with NY state running the place as long as they do not act like piggy bank for Bell. How about let Bell take out a banks loan like everyone else does to expand or make profit then use that money. There is enough people that ski and snowboarding at Bell. that they should be making money.

 

[ScottySkis]

Snow

 

[RootDKJ]

So should every state and federal park in the US be put up for sale as well?

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I'd be in favor if turning over all Federal parks over to the States.

 

[Hawkshot99]

I'd be in favor if turning over all Federal parks over to the States.

But then we would have all the complaints on how they all loose $.

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[ScottySkis]

But then we would have all the complaints on how they all loose $.

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All parks are run by government so there not in competition with other private business parks that the issue.

 

[Hawkshot99]

All parks are run by government so there not in competition with other private business parks that the issue.

Amusment parks are not run by the govt. I have been in town, and other parks that have rides.
Many parks have ice skating in them for a fee. You dont see all the hockey rinks complaining.

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[x10003q]

All parks are run by government so there not in competition with other private business parks that the issue.

Not all parks are run by the government. Here are some other examples:
Golf courses, colleges, universities, boat launches, lakes, beaches, public schools, stadiums, arenas, music venues, buildings, prisons, police services, horse tracks, swimming pools, basketball courts, water companies, power companies, special business zones, hotel and lodging, airports, train service, weather service, for starters.

 

[BenedictGomez]

That being said the plan they have proposed in almost every regard, especially in the lift build out they are proposing, is beyond the point of cringe worthy but frankly embarrassing.

I cannot even imagine what the hell is going through the minds of the DEC (and just to clarify everything I have read through in documentation states this is the DEC's build out plan, not ORDAs). I hope they build it, only so it will serve as an example for the next century of what can go wrong when ideological idoits plan and "implement" something

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I'm lobbying to keep Freefall all natural.

Hopefully you're successful. One of the many reasons I drive so far to ski at Plattekill is for the high-percentage of au natural snow that is virtually impossible to find elsewhere. Whether it's good, bad, or even possibly on rare occasion ugly, the snow lies where god put it, and I love that.

There are still zero realistic suggestions for what NYS should do with Belleayre.

Let it fail.

Just like every "real" business not kept on life support by acting like a giant parasite sucking from New Yorker's paychecks.

And when it fails (and it will), sell it to the highest bidder, thus taking it private and ending the perpetual years of waste of taxpayer's money.

 

[x10003q]

Let it fail.

Just like every "real" business not kept on life support by acting like a giant parasite sucking from New Yorker's paychecks.

And when it fails (and it will), sell it to the highest bidder, thus taking it private and ending the perpetual years of waste of taxpayer's money.

There are 2 problems with the let it fail proposal. First, there is the NYS constitution which would need to be changed. This is not easily done. Second, as Belleayre now sits financially, it has zero debt. If it started operating w/o NYS financial help it most likely operate for many years on its own positive cash flow. ORDA has managed to operate Gore and WF cash flow positive for many years. The only problem would be if the HSQ need to be replaced or the entire snowmaking system need to be replaced unexpectedly. NYS owns a valuable asset, go change the constitution and make sure NYS gets some value for it instead of having it fail.

 

[ScottySkis]

420:beer::beer:

 

[AdironRider]

Not all parks are run by the government. Here are some other examples:
Golf courses, colleges, universities, boat launches, lakes, beaches, public schools, stadiums, arenas, music venues, buildings, prisons, police services, horse tracks, swimming pools, basketball courts, water companies, power companies, special business zones, hotel and lodging, airports, train service, weather service, for starters.

Never realized those scenic special business zones, utilities, airports and train stations were considered parks. You're an easy man to please outdoors I see.

 

[x10003q]

Never realized those scenic special business zones, utilities, airports and train stations were considered parks. You're an easy man to please outdoors I see.

They are all examples of where the gvt competes with private ownership and business. There are way more numerous and expensive examples than Belleayre. Just because skiing is recreation does not change the fact that it is a business. I happen to think in the current situation NYS should continue to run Belleayre.

 

[dmc]

Problem is.. To me..

NYS Govt puts a ton of cash into a ski area they run wich caters to people from out of state that spend no cash locally..

Every local I know from the Belleayre area skis at Hunter..
Count the Jersey plates in the lot some time...

 

[catskillman]

I try.
Well their owned by NY state. Lots or years the hill does not make a profit. In the past they have given out free and ridiculous cheap tickets . Their 3 other Catskills hills that are still open that have to compete with them. Lots of places closed over the last 20 years. When it comes to expansion NY state has allowed all three of their hills to expand but makes it impossible for Hunter to open up more terrain that they have. I believe NY employees work for Bell. but I am not 100% sure.

They are all NYS employees, except food service which is leased. The NYS employees have pensions, health insurance etc..... Some ski instructors are full time year round employees

 

[x10003q]

Problem is.. To me..

NYS Govt puts a ton of cash into a ski area they run wich caters to people from out of state that spend no cash locally..

Every local I know from the Belleayre area skis at Hunter..
Count the Jersey plates in the lot some time...

Hopefully ORDA will release the numbers from their zip code tracking (like they do for Gore/WF) so we can actually see whether your perception is correct or incorrect. I do not understand why NJ skiers at Belleayre bothers you so much. It is not like there is a special lower rate lift ticket for NJ residents. No need to worry about NJ residents not contributing to NYS. NYS gets a ton of cash from the 400,000 people who commute from NJ to NYC for jobs everyday.

As for picking on NJ residents for not spending money locally, it seems that nobody is spending money locally. You need to include all the NYS skiers at Belleayre in your theory. The demographics of Orange/Rockland/Westchester/Putnam/Nassau/Suffolk Counties in NY are very similar to NJ. Then there are all the Belleayre customers from the 5 Boroughs.

We can assume that locals are going to be better skiers/boarders and therefore enjoy the terrain at Hunter.

 

[ScottySkis]

Hopefully ORDA will release the numbers from their zip code tracking (like they do for Gore/WF) so we can actually see whether your perception is correct or incorrect. I do not understand why NJ skiers at Belleayre bothers you so much. It is not like there is a special lower rate lift ticket for NJ residents. No need to worry about NJ residents not contributing to NYS. NYS gets a ton of cash from the 400,000 people who commute from NJ to NYC for jobs everyday.

As for picking on NJ residents for not spending money locally, it seems that nobody is spending money locally. You need to include all the NYS skiers at Belleayre in your theory. The demographics of Orange/Rockland/Westchester/Putnam/Nassau/Suffolk Counties in NY are very similar to NJ. Then there are all the Belleayre customers from the 5 Boroughs.

We can assume that locals are going to be better skiers/boarders and therefore enjoy the terrain at Hunter.

Orange County NY is not same middle class wise as Westchester.

 

[x10003q]

Orange County NY is not same middle class wise as Westchester.

I did not say it did. I said it had similar demographics to NJ.

 

[ScottySkis]

I did not say it did. I said it had similar demographics to NJ.

Sorry I see that now.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Count the Jersey plates in the lot some time...

<----- Has Jersey plate you wont see in a Belleayre parking lot.

They are all NYS employees, except food service which is leased. The NYS employees have pensions, health insurance etc..... Some ski instructors are full time year round employees

Such waste.