NY Skiing, an observation I've long held

[deadheadskier]

Seems to me that NY State got the shaft in the boom of large ski area development of the 50s, 60s, 70s.

Please don't take offense to that NYers. I know there are some great ski areas in the state.

It just seems that in comparison to the rest of the Northeast, NY didn't see their fair share given the vast amount of high mountains in the State. Heck, Vermont has only handful of peaks higher than 3500 feet more than the Catskills alone, never mind the Adirondacks. Granted, much more snow in VT.

 

[Greg]

I believe New York has more ski areas than any other state, but indeed not a lot of big vert resorts. Isn't there some sort of mileage limit too?

 

[deadheadskier]

Yeah NY definitely has quantity. Guess I just look over there and what are there? 5 areas total of 1500 vert or greater? Whiteface, Gore, Hunter, Windham, Bellayere? Compared to what could be developed, the ratio is astoundingly lower than VT, NH and ME.

 

[St. Bear]

I wonder how much of it is due to the NYS laws regarding state and national forests? I know dmc said once that while Hunter Mountain is a 4,000+ ft summit, skiing only goes up to 3,600 because the rest of the mountain (and surrounding area) has been deemed "forever wild". If a similar statute was put on most of the higher ADK peaks, that could explain a lot.

 

[Greg]

http://skiing.alpinezone.com/resorts/map/?state=NY

 

[wa-loaf]

The Adirondack Park kinda limits ski area construction on most of the high peaks there.

 

[dmc]

The Adirondack Park kinda limits ski area construction on most of the high peaks there.

Same with the Catskill Park... And I'm generally cool with that...

 

[mondeo]

VT is as close to NYC as much of the 'daks, plus gets traffic from the rest of NE. Combine that with lack of snow and latitude difference, not really surprising that VT is the hot spot for ski resorts. Plus competing with resorts that don't have to be profitable to remain operational isn't the easiest thing to do.

 

[SteveInCT]

There may be environmental regulations and limitations now but back in the 50's & 60's, regulation was much less of a factor (if at all). The difference between New York and upper New England was simple back then: Cost and recurring expenditures. Back then, the cost of land in VT and NH was ridiculously cheap and the ongoing costs (taxes) were cheap as well. From what I understand, New York taxes in the 50's and 60's were comparatively high, so you would have a harder time maintaining profit. Now, the taxes have evened out a bit, but the resorts in NH and VT already exist so the upfront costs are lower than if you were to buy a mountain, clear the trails, erect the lodge and lifts, etc. These days, people just recycle the old resorts to new ownership.

Speaking of that, when was the last time a new resort was cut in the northeast? Anyone know? (IOW - what is the newest resort in the northeast?)

 

[dmc]

There may be environmental regulations and limitations now but back in the 50's & 60's, regulation was much less of a factor (if at all).

Oh yeah... Hunter basically blew the mountain up to create trails - it was built by road builders.. You can't get away with that now..

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

There may be environmental regulations and limitations now but back in the 50's & 60's, regulation was much less of a factor (if at all). The difference between New York and upper New England was simple back then: Cost and recurring expenditures. Back then, the cost of land in VT and NH was ridiculously cheap and the ongoing costs (taxes) were cheap as well. From what I understand, New York taxes in the 50's and 60's were comparatively high, so you would have a harder time maintaining profit. Now, the taxes have evened out a bit, but the resorts in NH and VT already exist so the upfront costs are lower than if you were to buy a mountain, clear the trails, erect the lodge and lifts, etc. These days, people just recycle the old resorts to new ownership.

Speaking of that, when was the last time a new resort was cut in the northeast? Anyone know? (IOW - what is the newest resort in the northeast?)

Saddleback feels like one............but isn't as I believe it never really ever completely shut down...........also are you talking from scratch or do places that have reopened count?

 

[St. Bear]

Isn't Crotched a recent addition?

 

[witch hobble]

Compared to what could be developed

Definately the key phrase. New York also has very few ski "resorts". It has many ski areas and ski centers.

Vermont hogs the quaintness, the charm, the snow, and it is easier to tell who is cool and who is not by the color of their license plates. State of Vermont chose not to enter the ski biz, unlike it's neighbors.

 

[Puck it]

ADK Park Comission is the main reason. I think the lack of infrastructure and access played a roll too.

 

[SteveInCT]

Saddleback feels like one............but isn't as I believe it never really ever completely shut down...........also are you talking from scratch or do places that have reopened count?

I mean cut from scratch. A untouched mountain turns into a resort. Reopening would mean it was already there.

 

[dmc]

Definately the key phrase. New York also has very few ski "resorts". It has many ski areas and ski centers.

Right - at least down south... And the Catskill resorts know that they need to become "resorts" so they are turning the heat up by putting up hotels and planning VT style villages...

Hunter is trying to expand - the rumor mill is churning again..

 

[SteveInCT]

As a side note, the OP didn't use the word "resort". That was Greg and I and (for me at least) were using the term to mean "ski area" -- regardless of additional development.

 

[Rambo]

I guess NY has the most Lost Ski Areas:

http://www.nelsap.org/ny/ny.html

Also interesting web-site about a ski area north of Hunter that was called Bearpen Mountain:

http://skikabbalah.com/lostNY/BEARPEN STORY.htm

 

[witch hobble]

Yeah, a lot of people use the term ski resort as a catch all. I was just pointing out that there is nowhere near the amount of amenity driven ski vacation destinations in NY as in VT.

Lake Placid is sort of a "Resort Town", if there is such a thing, with an awesome ski area not too far away. Gore is not a resort, altho certain factions aspire for it to be thought of as one. I've only been to Hunter once, and it was resorty. have not been to other Catskills ares. I've never been to Holiday Valley, but I'm sure it is resorty.

My point is just that much of the skiing (and accomodations) in NYS is more spartan than across the lake.

 

[SteveInCT]

Isn't Crotched a recent addition?

I just checked and it was cut in 1964. I suppose that could be the newest one built, but I am not sure.