NY Skiing, an observation I've long held

[ski_resort_observer]

The North Woods of Maine is definately less populated than the AP but the AP is strictly regulated and a state park while the North Woods is just a region without real boundaries other than Baxter State Park and is not as strictly regulated.

There are many that would love a North Woods National Park, but IMHO it will never happen. Plum Creek, the biggest landowner in the country, based out of Oregon owns millions of acres of the North Woods and is currently trying to put in a huge developement on the east shore of Moosehead Lake. It's taken about 5 years and they are semi-close to breaking ground. They had to make consessions. Lots of folks in Maine and in the country have been fighting it.

Alot of people, especially those out west, don't realize how big the AP is. It's about 2 1/2 times larger than Yellowstone NP.

 

[tjf67]

My two cents ... it's all about the snow. Adks are looking at 150-200 inches and VT is between 250-350. That has everything to do with north/south orientation of the Green Mtn spine.

It makes sense that 2x the snow would yield more resorts. It's easier to a make a profit when you get more natural snow.

I know the Adks is protected, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But I think IF the Adks got the snow that VT did the pressure to develop would have been much greater in the past.

Can't tell you how many times I've heard people fantasizing about moving Gore onto the Tug Plateau. If Gore was on the Tug, it would be Kmart. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!)

Do you go out into newcomb at all and look over at the high peaks from that side? From Newcomb side of the high peaks al lthe way over to 87 you have a lot of 4k+ peaks that catch all the snow.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

The North Woods of Maine is definately less populated than the AP but the AP is strictly regulated and a state park while the North Woods is just a region without real boundaries other than Baxter State Park and is not as strictly regulated.

There are many that would love a North Woods National Park, but IMHO it will never happen. Plum Creek, the biggest landowner in the country, based out of Oregon owns millions of acres of the North Woods and is currently trying to put in a huge developement on the east shore of Moosehead Lake. It's taken about 5 years and they are semi-close to breaking ground. They had to make consessions. Lots of folks in Maine and in the country have been fighting it.

Alot of people, especially those out west, don't realize how big the AP is. It's about 2 1/2 times larger than Yellowstone NP.

I don't know much about the AP, but I do know Maine is the most forested state in the country, has little in the way of population, the town i was from is the largest in Piscataquis County (size of Rhode Island) and has only 4000 people and the county has 16000 people. And as far as the Plum Creek deal, it will take 30 years to come to full development, much of it is in populated areas and some developed areas of Moosehead (lilly bay, squaw mountain). I still have mixed feelings about it, but being from that area it's tough to have people from Boston (restore) and southern Maine wanting things left natural in an area they don't make a living in. The county and area is one of the poorest areas around. Sorry to get side tracked.

 

[polski]

Re Crotched (NH):

I just checked and it was cut in 1964. I suppose that could be the newest one built, but I am not sure.

It's actually a little complicated. The original Crotched (later known as Crotched East) opened in 1964. A neighboring area, Onset, opened in 1970; later it was renamed Bobcat. Crotched took Bobcat over in 1980 and renamed it Crotched West. All of Crotched closed in 1989/90; the old Crotched West reopened in 2003, while Crotched East stayed closed. So the current Crotched actually dates to 1970.

I know Hidden Valley in NJ (near Mountain Creek) opened in the mid-70s. That's the most recently cut ski mountain I'm aware of in the Northeast.

 

[Rambo]

Re Crotched (NH):
I know Hidden Valley in NJ (near Mountain Creek) opened in the mid-70s. That's the most recently cut ski mountain I'm aware of in the Northeast.

Montage Mountain now named Sno Mountain was cut sometime in the 1980's and is in the Pocono mountains of PA at Scranton. 1,000 ft. vertical. (I never skied there.)

"Snö Mountain, formerly called Montage Mountain Ski Area, was developed by Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania in the 1980s, using Federal economic development funds. Snö is now one of the largest ski areas in the Pocono region of Pennsylvania, featuring some of the steepest skiing terrain in the region. The mountain has 26 trails for skiing. Snö Mountain also has 2 terrain parks and two new halfpipes including a 22' half pipe."

 

[AndyEich]

Whitetail, in south-central PA (almost MD), opened in 1992. Good consolation prize for those who were disappointed that development of College Mountain fell through.
________
Volcano vaporizers

 

[St. Bear]

I don't know much about the AP, but I do know Maine is the most forested state in the country, has little in the way of population, the town i was from is the largest in Piscataquis County (size of Rhode Island) and has only 4000 people and the county has 16000 people. And as far as the Plum Creek deal, it will take 30 years to come to full development, much of it is in populated areas and some developed areas of Moosehead (lilly bay, squaw mountain). I still have mixed feelings about it, but being from that area it's tough to have people from Boston (restore) and southern Maine wanting things left natural in an area they don't make a living in. The county and area is one of the poorest areas around. Sorry to get side tracked.

Very interesting point to be made here, I'm glad we have an opinion of someone who grew up there.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

Very interesting point to be made here, I'm glad we have an opinion of someone who grew up there.

It's a very nice area, but its tough to make a living, I ended up going to school outside the state and had no reason to go back, nothing to go back to as far as a job. Unfortunately I didn't become a teacher, social worker or a nurse. I love getting back there though, hit up Sugarloaf (use to hit up Squaw), Sebec Lake, Moosehead and some of the local watering holes. Hopefully someday things will change, but I doubt it, Maine is much to unfriendly of a business climate.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

It's a very nice area, but its tough to make a living, I ended up going to school outside the state and had no reason to go back, nothing to go back to as far as a job. Unfortunately I didn't become a teacher, social worker or a nurse. I love getting back there though, hit up Sugarloaf (use to hit up Squaw), Sebec Lake, Moosehead and some of the local watering holes. Hopefully someday things will change, but I doubt it, Maine is much to unfriendly of a business climate.

It's an incredibly beautiful area with the same problems your speaking of as the resort area of the Daks I grew up in. If your not employed in the snowmobile business in some way, directly or indirectly, or the other professions mentioned, many are on unemployement. Squaw having major issues is not helping.

For a bunch of summers the only vacation the wife and I took away from the kids was renting a cheap cabin on the lake in Rockwood. Many times it was the same weekend as the Fly-In in Greenville which was alot of fun. When Squaw's lift ran to the summit the view from up there is really amazing.

It's a very complicated issue for locals. Like many similar developements I guess it will happen when common ground that everyone can live with is acheived. On one side it means jobs and local tax revenue while on the other side it means housing prices will go up, crowds and all the other bad things that come with a big resort developement in an area that's not very developed, even tho Greenville is the biggest/busiest most developed town of the area.

 

[jtothewang]

Ski areas (not resorts) in the Catskills don’t attract midweek visitors. Midweek skiers go west or to Vermont. Fixed costs are real high in the hospitality business, so therefore lodging, skiable terrain, etc, etc is limited in the Catskills because there is virtually no midweek income. I have always thought the Catskills should offer a multi-mountain midweek pass. Two resorts in two days, three resorts in three days or four resorts in four days. I think the multi-mountain midweek pass as well as the close proximity to NYC may be enough to attract midweek visitors. Just a thought, but I think VT has figured out the midweek much better than Catskills, can’t speak for ADKs though. I don’t think the limiting factor is the type of terrain. I just think more terrain needs to be offered as well as conference capabilities and better restaurants and lodging. All of those things can be found in VT. A ski vacation is an experience that includes food, lodging and other activities. I honestly believe the Catskills will eventually figure that out. If nothing else, the billionaire owner of Windham will.

 

[Adunn]

Nys laws suck! Such a nanny state

 

[Warp Daddy]

Nys laws suck! Such a nanny state

Uh this is a skiing forum dude ! Observations about SKIING are the subject being discussed ,not your right wing politics

 

[Puck it]

Uh this is a skiing forum dude ! Observations about SKIING are the subject being discussed ,not your right wing politics

What is wrong with being a conservative?

 

[Edd]

What is wrong with being a conservative?

Doesn't read like he says anything is wrong with it.

 

[Warp Daddy]

Doesn't read like he says anything is wrong with it.

Nothing wrong with being conservative at all Puck ! Simply saying the topic is NY skiing NOT a political agenda of ANY persuasion . Dude has VERY few posts and then focuses on political CHIT , come on man its a skiing forum . You wanna trash talk politics take it elsewhere , i for one am WEARY of all the political nonsense and bickering .......just sayin :flag:

 

[marcski]

To give the benefit of the doubt to the newbie, perhaps he was referring to the Forever Wild laws and the NYC DEP's extensive ownership and anti-development stance? Personally, I don't have issues with either law. Plus, I ski NYS every weekend and some weekdays too!

 

[MadMadWorld]

I want to meet the guys that decided only building one ski area in the High Peaks was a good idea and punch him in the mouth. Yea the Catskills have much better terrain and snowfall!

 

[Puck it]

Nothing wrong with being conservative at all Puck ! Simply saying the topic is NY skiing NOT a political agenda of ANY persuasion . Dude has VERY few posts and then focuses on political CHIT , come on man its a skiing forum . You wanna trash talk politics take it elsewhere , i for one am WEARY of all the political nonsense and bickering .......just sayin :flag:

Just bustin'!!!

 

[ScottySkis]

Lets get BeerPen open.

 

[moresnow]

Lets get BeerPen open.

+1

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