NY Skiing, an observation I've long held

[dmc]

I guess NY has the most Lost Ski Areas:

http://www.nelsap.org/ny/ny.html

I was hanging out at Cortina last night. NELSAP....

 

[SteveInCT]

Yeah, a lot of people use the term ski resort as a catch all. I was just pointing out that there is nowhere near the amount of amenity driven ski vacation destinations in NY as in VT.

Lake Placid is sort of a "Resort Town", if there is such a thing, with an awesome ski area not too far away. Gore is not a resort, altho certain factions aspire for it to be thought of as one. I've only been to Hunter once, and it was resorty. have not been to other Catskills ares. I've never been to Holiday Valley, but I'm sure it is resorty.

I believe the reason for the catch-all phrase is it's actual definition: "a place providing recreation and entertainment especially to vacationers". Using that, it is easy to see why ANY ski mountain is a resort. On the other hand, the term has morphed into something that means "A place where there is a lot of amenities and stuff to do". So, using the phrase can be misconstrued when it is used to describe the former instead of the latter. Oddly, if we use the dictionary definition, "resort town" makes complete sense. It is a town that also has a resort in it or very close by. Bored yet? ;-)

My point is just that much of the skiing (and accomodations) in NYS is more spartan than across the lake.

Agreed!

 

[evantrentful]

Yeah like others point out, the ADK park policies on development along with the catskills hinder (though, I dont think thats a bad thing) the development of ski areas. Both the Catskill Park and ADK Park had been established since the late 1800's.

The Green Mountain nation forest was established in the early 1930's, but who knows what land was originally apart of the park, and if policies were as strict early on which helped ski area development.

DMC, were the Hunter and Windham general region not apart of the original Catskill Park, but then latter annexed after the ski areas were built. I cant remember how that worked out

 

[tjf67]

The ADK's are a state park. The APA was set up in the 70's for the stuartship to keep the dacks wilderness. There can not without an amendment tothe constitution be another ski resort up here. THere are plenty of big peaks that get as much or more snow than the greens. You just dont know about them cause the types that are crawling around on them don't use the internet.
There were a few people that used to be on here that could provide some great info on the topic. Sally banned them :blink:

The greens are a national park. They have there own set of rules which must have been more liberal back in the day when ski areas were popping up.

 

[witch hobble]

Bored yet?

No way! Love to split hairs and knit pick.

How 'bout "resorty"? What do ya think of that?

 

[Warp Daddy]

AS Others have said the Forever Wild restrictions , Strong Regulation by APA , coupled with a VERY strong and Very well funded environmental lobby that is Both politically & socially connected' and the need to compete with publicly funded ski areas all make NYS a limited Market for corporate ski resort development.

The existence of many local feeder or regional day areas is a good thing for the sport and serves to both assist local economies and KEEPS the $$$$$ local as opposes to the bottom line of meganormous corp run ski resorts .

 

[dmc]

DMC, were the Hunter and Windham general region not apart of the original Catskill Park, but then latter annexed after the ski areas were built. I cant remember how that worked out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catskill_Park

The park is governed by Article 14 of the state constitution, which stipulates that all land acquired within cannot be sold or otherwise transferred (absent amending the constitution, which has been done on several occasions), may not be used for logging and must remain "forever wild."

The most important change during this time period was the amending of Article 14, in 1948 to allow for the construction of Belleayre Mountain Ski Center and thus encourage skiers to come to the Catskills, following the lead taken in the Adirondacks by the creation of Whiteface and Gore ski areas. It remains in operation today, and several other private ski areas such as Hunter Mountain and Windham Mountain have followed its lead.

 

[dmc]

http://www.adirondack-park.net/history/article14-text.html

 

[SteveInCT]

How 'bout "resorty"? What do ya think of that?

Resorty gives me gas.

 

[abc]

I'm not sure what the OP's point. "short shaft" implies it's a negative...

If the ADK ever comes up for vote to change the "forever wild" status, I'll be the first in line to vote AGAINST the change!

Here's why:

1) Vermont is just as easy, if not easier, to get to from both NYC and Boston.

2) Vermont gets more snow anyway (I've skied WP a lot in the past, before I finally realize its immense ice sheet was not shared by other northeast mountains, especially NOT in VT)

3) There aren't that many good place left for BC skiing (both xc and alpine). What there is, a lot are in the ADK region.

4) There aren't that many good place for summer camping/hiking/paddling. Again, AKD has a wealth of that.

I've hiked in the Whites. It's great hiking but it's not a wilderness experience. Vermont in the summer? It's just Disney on grass. I treasure the ADK for what it is, the only one large track of land left "somewhat wild" in the east.

With ski resorts in VT, leaving NY for more BC and wilderness experience, we New York downstaters gets to enjoy BOTH. I'd say I feel lucky that's the way it turns out!

So I'd say it's a GOOD thing that New York doesn't get a lot of ski resort!

 

[Harvey]

My two cents ... it's all about the snow. Adks are looking at 150-200 inches and VT is between 250-350. That has everything to do with north/south orientation of the Green Mtn spine.

It makes sense that 2x the snow would yield more resorts. It's easier to a make a profit when you get more natural snow.

I know the Adks is protected, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But I think IF the Adks got the snow that VT did the pressure to develop would have been much greater in the past.

Can't tell you how many times I've heard people fantasizing about moving Gore onto the Tug Plateau. If Gore was on the Tug, it would be Kmart. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!)

 

[takeahike46er]

But I think IF the Adks got the snow that VT did the pressure to develop would have been much greater in the past.

There are peaks in the Adirondacks that I would estimate hit the 250'' mark for snowfall. They also happen to be remote, have little or no roads anywhere near their bases, and no nearby towns to house workers and skiers. Add in development restrictions and any pressure to develop a ski area in these areas would be squelched.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

The greens are a national park. They have there own set of rules which must have been more liberal back in the day when ski areas were popping up.

The only national park in the northeast is Acadia NP up in Maine. The "greens" are in Green Mountain NF, a huge diference is mission than a NP.

 

[campgottagopee]

Can't tell you how many times I've heard people fantasizing about moving Gore onto the Tug Plateau.

See if you can work on that for us Harv......what a special place that would be!!!!

 

[abc]

Can't tell you how many times I've heard people fantasizing about moving Gore onto the Tug Plateau. If Gore was on the Tug, it would be Kmart. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!)

No, it won't. It's too far away. But if you can move Tug Plateau to Gore, that would be different!

 

[witch hobble]

No, it won't. It's too far away. But if you can move Tug Plateau to Gore, that would be different!

Maybe relocate Lake Ontario to Indian Lake instead. Might be easier.

Bill McKibben's small book "Wandering Home" has a lot of meditations on the differences between Vermont and the Adirondacks, if you are interested.

"Somewhat Wild" doesn't have the same ring as "Forever Wild".

 

[dbking]

I kinda remember back in the mid 60's, NYS put forth a proposition to build another ski area in the ADKs named Hoffman Mt. It is located just North of Schroon Lake. It got voted down. I wonder how and why NYS got into the ski area business. Are`there other states with state run ski areas? Does NYS do a good job at it these days?

 

[deadheadskier]

There are other States that own ski areas, but usually the operations are contracted out to private companies.

A few off the the top of my head that represent this are Cannon and Sundapee here in NH and Winterpark in Colorado.

 

[severine]

I treasure the ADK for what it is, the only one large track of land left "somewhat wild" in the east.

Aren't the Great North Woods in Maine more wild? I thought that was a larger tract of land that is far less populated than the ADKs. I mean, my husband's uncle lives in Indian Lake and we've hiked in the area... the towns are small, but there are towns. Getting into the Great North Woods, there's nothing....

 

[billski]

Aren't the Great North Woods in Maine more wild? I thought that was a larger tract of land that is far less populated than the ADKs. I mean, my husband's uncle lives in Indian Lake and we've hiked in the area... the towns are small, but there are towns. Getting into the Great North Woods, there's nothing....

"Leaving T5R19, Entering T6R19"