ORDA goes solar

[Scruffy]

I'd like to see a non-biased real estate survey on this. I think solar panels on roofs are ugly as crap, and I'd definitely be disinclined to buy. I do agree the "hippie" crowd and the "look at me" crowd might be attracted though.

It's way past the "hippie" and "me too" crowd, BG. Roof top solar is going main stream for any political strip looking to save a buck or stick it to big business/gov. So yeah, your garden variety Timothy McVeigh wantabes are interested too.

But, there is a backlash coming - When there were just a few net meter-ers out there, the Utilities, barely cared. Now that the numbers are growing, they see it as an attack on their business. From the utilities point of view, the net meter-ers are not paying their fair share to support the grid, and they are being subsidized right now to boot. A big battle is brewing and big money will turn legislation it's way. So expect there to be fees to net meter in the future.

 

[deadheadskier]

Yes, but the fact is right now renewables are more expensive than fossil fuel generated. It can not be denied by the facts.

Oh really? I have friends in the fine state of Mass you live in that have a home solar system that would disagree with you even if they didn't receive tax credits for its installation.

 

[Puck it]

Oh really? I have friends in the fine state of Mass you live in that have a home solar system that would disagree with you even if they didn't receive tax credits for its installation.

4.5- 4.99% for equpiment and 30% federal tax credit. I doubt it. I have looked at it.

 

[deadheadskier]

They have a 35k system that covers 70% of their electricity use. The cost of the loan equals the savings from NStar. So, their out of pocket expense is exactly the same each month. Loan term is 12 years at which point they realize the full 70% savings on that utility. They've lived in their house for a long time and plan on staying there for the rest of their lives.

Without tax credits, extend the term out further, but it still eventually becomes a cheaper utility once the system is paid for.

If I found myself in a home I planned on living in for the rest of my life I'd make the same choice given those terms. I would not make the choice if I was planning on selling. As has been said here, the panels could reduce the pool of potential buyers.

 

[BenedictGomez]

There's the anti solar BG comments I was expecting. I knew you wouldn't let me down.

Huh. Mentioning solar panels on a house's roof as being ugly is "anti solar" comments?

I know I'm not the 1st to say this, but roughly the 3,783rd person to say this, but for someone who's a "moderator", you sure do make a lot of intentionally provocative troll posts. Some (like this one) are just more obvious than others.

It's way past the "hippie" and "me too" crowd, BG. Roof top solar is going main stream for any political strip looking to save a buck or stick it to big business/gov. So yeah, your garden variety Timothy McVeigh wantabes are interested too.

Granted it is a huge racket and clearly there are those who figure, "well, I aint paying for it, so screw those who are", but I still believe those folks are greatly eclipsed by the people who think they're somehow doing something good for the planet. I think those people still represent the bulk of home solar.

EDIT:

I would not make the choice if I was planning on selling. As has been said here, the panels could reduce the pool of potential buyers.

Then he makes the same comment a few posts later. The cognitive dissonance could give whiplash.

 

[Scruffy]

Granted it is a huge racket and clearly there are those who figure, "well, I aint paying for it, so screw those who are", but I still believe those folks are greatly eclipsed by the people who think they're somehow doing something good for the planet. I think those people still represent the bulk of home solar.

Then you'd be wrong. According to market research done by The Cadmus Group: Of the reasons a customer made the purchase decision to install residential solar- the number one reason people installed residential solar was to lower electric bills ( 70% who actually purchased a system, mention this as their primary motivator ). Only 32% stated - Reduce carbon output. Federal and state tax incentives drew a 29% favorable response.

 

[deadheadskier]

Relax dude, just teasing. You are like clockwork in making every effort to discredit renewables, whether solar or wind. Learn to laugh at yourself a little. It's an easy stereotype, kind of like your "hippies" and "look at me" comment.

 

[Puck it]

They have a 35k system that covers 70% of their electricity use. The cost of the loan equals the savings from NStar. So, their out of pocket expense is exactly the same each month. Loan term is 12 years at which point they realize the full 70% savings on that utility. They've lived in their house for a long time and plan on staying there for the rest of their lives.

Without tax credits, extend the term out further, but it still eventually becomes a cheaper utility once the system is paid for.

If I found myself in a home I planned on living in for the rest of my life I'd make the same choice given those terms. I would not make the choice if I was planning on selling. As has been said here, the panels could reduce the pool of potential buyers.

I ran numbers a while for my house and it did not make sense for the cost of the system and the operating time.

 

[ironhippy]

but it still eventually becomes a cheaper utility once the system is paid for.

But how long do the components last? After 12 years, are you going to have to replace your battery bank and panels? Granted it should be a lot cheaper by then, but I can't see the battery bank lasting more than a decade and I would assume panels would take a beating over 12 New England winters.

I have no idea, I'm just curious.

 

[deadheadskier]

Not sure what the warranty and lifespan is for their system. I know my father's system for heating the water of his pool has a 20 year warranty.

 

[Not Sure]

Not sure about lifespan of PV systems, As part of permitting locally they are requiring an engineering evaluation of the roof to see if it will carry the load plus snow load ( make sense) another installation cost. A small PV side benefit might be casting a shadow on the roof shingles keeping the roof a little cooler ?
There are PV roof collectors that are shingles , those would be virtually un noticable. I don't know of any locally but seems like it would be more practical as it 's part of the roof.
I've installed an Apricus evacuated tube hot water system for my father inlaw, I think his purchase was on a whim, It most likely will never pay for itself given his hot water consumption , The glass tube systems do better shedding snow vs flat panel . I had a heat exchanger blockage the system litterally created steam causing a sensor failure. Stagnation with those systems can create maintaince issues, Hydronic systems aren't worth it till oil gets back over $100 barrel.

Keeping cost down is the only way to make solar practical without subsidies, The only practical system that I've sold is a pool heating system that removes attic heat and heats the pool , It's opperates of the existing pump system , a fan coil is installed in athe attic and opperates of a three way valve that when the attic temp is 5 degrees higher . As long as the pool water is maintained they last 12yrs.

Recent Natural gas glut is going to keep a lid on Oil prices killing solar demand.Many places that collect and use waste oil are going out of buisiness as a consiquence , finding space for waste oil is becoming a problem , It can be refined for other uses adding further to Oil supply ,
Congress most likely will not renew the subsidies , It will be intersting to see what happens with the small Solar businesses that specialize can survive.
Geo is high end and most people I've installed for aren't doing it for the tax credit , more status symbol . they are good for 20yrs but need all of it to pay back the investment , some never will.

 

[steamboat1]

huh. Mentioning solar panels on a house's roof as being ugly is "anti solar" comments?

I know i'm not the 1st to say this, but roughly the 3,783rd person to say this, but for someone who's a "moderator", you sure do make a lot of intentionally provocative troll posts. Some (like this one) are just more obvious than others.

lol

 

[deadheadskier]

Lol

 

[BenedictGomez]

Recent Natural gas glut is going to keep a lid on Oil prices killing solar demand.

I've invested quite a bit in natural gas, and wholly believe it's the energy future of this nation. That said, I believe those who are writing oil's epitaph are just as short-sighted now as when (many of those same people) were predicting $200 oil just a few years ago.