Powder Mountain, Utah Sold

[thetrailboss]

I just saw on their Facebook page that the current ownership has announced that they will sell the resort in early 2013 to the "Summit Series."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenb...er-mountain-to-create-entrepreneur-community/

The Summit Series is a group of young entrepreneurs who have had annual events and looks like a network of millionaires/business folks.

Powder Mountain has largely been a locals place with 10,000 acres of land and 500 inches of snow annually. They have a lot of slack country and cat skiing. The current ownership had plans of big development, as in thousands of homes, but the economy shut that down.

The plans are that the Summit group will sell house plots for a mere $1 million each. "The goal is to create a community of like-minded entrepreneurs who dig the Summit ethos of innovation, art and social impact with some hard partying mixed in."
Forbes reports that the group "plans to operate Powder Mountain, a long-time local-favorite, for the public just as it has been since the 1970s. The new twist will be a member-only lodge (under construction now) and an event center atop the mountain, and expanded access to adventure skiing and hiking terrain."

They want to build up to 500 homes.

Powder Mountain's Facebook page with comments and videos/articles on this.

The reaction is largely negative for two reasons. First, folks like Powder as it is--affordable and no frills. Second, the Forbes article mentions that they are going to turn this into a "entreprenuer country club" and it seems that they are either going to turn this into a private playground or at least piss a lot of locals off. We know that private gated ski areas have recently failed--the Haystack Club, Bear Creek, and the Yellowstone Club. So the idea just does not work.

It just does not look good....hate to be negative. Get there as soon as you can if you were thinking of hitting it because it may not be as accessible.

 

[snoseek]

As long as they don't close it off or price us out it could actually not be so bad. They need infrastructure at the mountain and Northern Utah could use the money. Private facilities on a public mountain could work just fine and maybe the paradise lift won't take 20 minutes.

I've been in private club mgmt for a good long while now. They are definitely getting my resume.

 

[thetrailboss]

Yeah I hope so snoseek. Seeing lots of things online I need to sort out. Some nonsense, some good things. Price was $40 mill. They got there by getting 40 investors to chip in $1 mill each. They paid the hefty price for the land...10,000 acres. There is not much there in terms of infrastructure or amenities.

This is one article: http://www.sfgate.com/technology/bu...40-Million-Mountain-4086869.php#ixzz2E1IJT9Pa

They built a nest?

 

[snoseek]

Definitely be watching this one closely. That place is near and dear to me, I hope for the best and remain cautiously optimistic

 

[millerm277]

Personally speaking, I see no problem IF things were to happen as described, it could be a really great fit. I'm sure the community is pissed at the moment, largely out of fear of either the experience being spoiled, or being shut out of the mountain, and they're certainly valid concerns.

But, that will go away quickly if they aren't lying and follow through with said plan in a decent manner.

A private lodge seems like a good, logical perk that won't really upset anyone, although there is a bit of a question in my mind about how exactly it would work. You figure even with a couple hundred of these homes, most days that lodge is going to be creepily empty, but still needs to be big enough to accommodate a holiday weekend or when there's a big event. Tough to get the right feel, I'd think.

Private lifts or private terrain, and you're going to have a very nasty relationship with the day/local skiers that's going to cause all sorts of problems, so it's good to see that doesn't appear to be proposed. However, with a place like Powder Mountain that's got a pretty limited number of skier visits (and with one of the big draws being exactly that for those who do go), funding improvements can't be very easy. A bunch of rich people paying a some nice fees every year solves that problem without you having to ruin what people love about the place. Doesn't mean you can't ruin it, but it does mean there isn't as much of a financial reason to do it.

Here's some video from the group apparently: http://vimeo.com/54669956

Light on substance and a bit too much with the flowery language for me, but it generally indicates about what I'd expect IMO. I'm settling on cautiously optimistic. I think it is worth remembering that it was for sale, and pretty much any company or group I could think of who'd be willing to pony up $40m for the place, would probably do worse things to the place. I'd rather a fancy lodge for the rich people and losing a bit of grit overall as opposed to seeing a relatively unique place turned into the same as everywhere else.

 

[ScottySkis]

I think it could be a good thing especially for people of Ogden work wise. I hear it reminds people of Plaaty hopeful to find out soon.

 

[thetrailboss]

I've watched the videos and agree that they are flowery in language, light on substance. The video of the group itself was interesting because they were talking about how awesome it is to get people together to learn from each other, network, help develop business, etc. They also mention helping non-profits...but I don't know of any specific things they've done. This sounds great and something I'd like as probably their target age demographic, but all the meanwhile they are saying that they are flashing images of people partying, swimming, fishing/scuba diving, drinking, doing yoga, etc. It seems like their events are for rich kids to go and party at and have fun. So the group sounds interesting, but I am skeptical.

As to the promo video for what they want to do, the guy commenting says he is a local. I don't know if other folks from up there will recognize him or dismiss him as someone who came with their treasures and settled down in one of the gated communities and now wants to do something because he is bored. This video too is lots of hand holding, kombayah singing, and trying to espouse a utopian vision for the place (with the subtle mention of 500 mansion homes and a private lodge for members only).

I've gone to college and law school with some of these folks who are rich new age and have this utopian vision. It makes me uke: personally because it is not grounded in reality and because they exclude others just like everyone else. The whole entitlement thing just pushes my buttons personally and I get that vibe here.

I have two concerns. First, despite what they say, they will exclude people. I imagine their events are very expensive and aimed at including the "in-crowd." I can see them coming in and pushing the locals out because the yoga classes don't mix well with the dirtbag skiers and snowboarders who drive up in their rusted cars looking for pow. Their new "lodge," if it is what I think it is, sits right on the main access road by the main parking lot and dwarfs the very rustic daylodge (think Mid-Burke Lodge-esque). If you are coming up to ski and see that you will quickly get it that you are an outsider. And second, their utopian vision does not necessarily guarantee that they will be able to successfully run a ski area. Just because they have famous folks come and hang out with them does not mean that they have what it takes to run the place well. As one of their videos says, the first thing that they did was not to announce a new lift or to add some snowmaking equipment; the first thing that they did was built a "nest" of sustainable material that was woven together so that you could climb up and take in the view. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? :blink:

Granted I don't know much about these folks and am basing some of my comments on fear of the unknown, but I just am skeptical. The only comparison I can draw is if these folks bought MRG and then said they were going to do this. Locals, and diehards, would really be concerned.

 

[Blizzard of Wahhs]

Resident troll does not approve of this sale

 

[deadheadskier]

Resident troll does not approve of this sale

what do you care? It's a resort with *gasp* lifts!!!!! The sale has no effect on your BC Wasatch Gnar assaults with your own high speed quads. Come on son. You're way to heady to be concerned with ski resort ownership transfers. pfft

 

[kingdom-tele]

its funny how important maintaining local access and tying to not change the experience is. I truly enjoy the lines people have drawn for what is OK development and what is suspect and potentially harmful development. perception is better than magic, only to be outdone by believing your reality is the same as everyone else.

careful TB, you sound like one of those anti development nutjobs

rich people committing millions to a project for special access. sounds like a win/win.

I can think of another comparison that fits that mold too.

 

[Blizzard of Wahhs]

what do you care? It's a resort with *gasp* lifts!!!!! The sale has no effect on your BC Wasatch Gnar assaults with your own high speed quads. Come on son. You're way to heady to be concerned with ski resort ownership transfers. pfft

This is true, call me a sentimental

 

[thetrailboss]

its funny how important maintaining local access and tying to not change the experience is. I truly enjoy the lines people have drawn for what is OK development and what is suspect and potentially harmful development. perception is better than magic, only to be outdone by believing your reality is the same as everyone else.

careful TB, you sound like one of those anti development nutjobs

rich people committing millions to a project for special access. sounds like a win/win.

I can think of another comparison that fits that mold too.

Well, I think that there are some distinctions between this and Burke or Jay if that is what you are getting to.

With the exception of Ginn, Burke and Jay are run by folks who know the biz. Pow Mow just got snatched up by what I perceive to be a group of young rich folks who don't really know anything about ski areas, but want a place to have their meetings and gatherings. And their plans are for several million dollar homes rather than ski development so that makes you wonder. Burke and Jay have that junk too, but they are also focused on the ski aspect.

And if they are going for the whole gated community thing then I can show you one, two, or actually three of these that have failed.

 

[AdironRider]

Well, I think that there are some distinctions between this and Burke or Jay if that is what you are getting to.

With the exception of Ginn, Burke and Jay are run by folks who know the biz. Pow Mow just got snatched up by what I perceive to be a group of young rich folks who don't really know anything about ski areas, but want a place to have their meetings and gatherings. And their plans are for several million dollar homes rather than ski development so that makes you wonder. Burke and Jay have that junk too, but they are also focused on the ski aspect.

And if they are going for the whole gated community thing then I can show you one, two, or actually three of these that have failed.

To be fair TB, I think you are projecting as to their ultimate wants and wishes with the place.

I think you're reaching a bit on saying the place is going to lose "soul" so to speak. Pow Mow was sold to the lowest of the low dirt pimps in the mid aughts and nothing changed. I dont see anything changing for Eden, Ogden, or Pow Mow for this sale either.

From my industry contacts, it sounds like they might have some exclusive cat terrain, but nothing more.

 

[thetrailboss]

To be fair TB, I think you are projecting as to their ultimate wants and wishes with the place.

I think you're reaching a bit on saying the place is going to lose "soul" so to speak. Pow Mow was sold to the lowest of the low dirt pimps in the mid aughts and nothing changed. I dont see anything changing for Eden, Ogden, or Pow Mow for this sale either.

From my industry contacts, it sounds like they might have some exclusive cat terrain, but nothing more.

I think that's fair because I'm going off of what I have seen from their videos and promo stuff.

Sounds like the buzz in the industry is nothing really changing for the ski side, but them doing something with the 10,000 acres for their homes, etc.

 

[kingdom-tele]

investing millions in non ski related development to enhance meeting and gathering.

Now I see the difference.

Curious, what's the percentage of money invested for ski related enhancement vs non ski related development that makes it a positve or negative?

No need for gates anymore TB. You can just price the people you don't want out.

 

[Mpdsnowman]

I love Powder Mountain.

Its the best imo out that way. Low key, relatively inexpensive, great area of the country. For the meets I do this has always been a favorite destination.

I am not surprised that a conglomerate bought the place. Common sense would say that they would not ruin the atmosphere or feeling that has been existent for all these years...As long as they dont replace the blue bus Im ok with it lol...

The private members only lodge is no good. Thats segregation and usually indicates clique's which I could see spilling into any lift lines that may occur....Ive seen that at other places...

The bottom line is they can add their money to it and do what they conceive as positive. Along with that might come some negatives but regardless there is one thing they cant change..

Powder country!...

 

[riverc0il]

Burke and Jay have that junk too, but they are also focused on the ski aspect.

You really think so? I'm not so sure...

I think kingdom-tele made an interesting point.

 

[Johnskiismore]

Man, I love Powder Mountain, it's hard to think of the place changing! Such a great place as is.

We, my snow friends, will have to see what the development will bring. Hmmm

Funny, just started making plans to go there in March

 

[AdironRider]

You really think so? I'm not so sure...

I think kingdom-tele made an interesting point.

No, he just carried his same anti-development stance, just framed it as a question.

Again, PowMow was already under a real estate developers hands for the better part of a decade. Nothing happened.

Summit has been in the fold up there for over a year now, didnt hear any complaints last year.

In reality I think this is end effect. Private clubhouse with access to private cat skiing. Some trophy home lots will be sold, and PowMow will be maintained as it currently is.

 

[thetrailboss]

No, he just carried his same anti-development stance, just framed it as a question.

+1.

Summit has been in the fold up there for over a year now, didnt hear any complaints last year.

In reality I think this is end effect. Private clubhouse with access to private cat skiing. Some trophy home lots will be sold, and PowMow will be maintained as it currently is.

Didn't know that they were there for a year. It will be interesting to see if this works out as they think it will.