Powder Mountain, Utah Sold

[AdironRider]

+1.



Didn't know that they were there for a year. It will be interesting to see if this works out as they think it will.

I dont know the ownership details of when it officially transfered, but I know the group as a whole has had its events/presence there for over a year. Didnt seem to affect much, but thats just my experience from afar.

 

[kingdom-tele]

There were no negative connotations from me. Merely a question? The negative tone I read were from others, which I found curious, since my inclination about the JPR progression has been suspect as a local resident and avid skier of J. From my perspective pow mow and the J scene are different, but it still comes down to viability secondary to non ski related funding. I see very little difference in recruiting young millionaires or foreign millionaires to invest in a dominating percentage of non ski related development. I was just surprised and a little amused that some here found it potentially damaging to the pow mow experience.

so, why is it different?

 

[snoseek]

I also agree they will build some big homes, a posh club and not much else will change.

As it is Powmow would be a great secluded place for the people they're after to actually get away. not too much going on up there, sorta pointless to make it private with all that cat skiing acerage and a sleepy resort. I'm also thinking there will be minimal improvement, which in the end is fine by me and I suspect a relief to regulars there.

The big question is can they run a profitable ski area? Is this gonna be back on the market two years from now?

A ski area on private land with that kind of snowfall, low angle cruisy terrain and a nice little valley below it could have easily sold to people with much bigger intentions. Honestly suprised Vail didn't swipe this up but glad. I think anyway...

 

[AdironRider]

There were no negative connotations from me. Merely a question? The negative tone I read were from others, which I found curious, since my inclination about the JPR progression has been suspect as a local resident and avid skier of J. From my perspective pow mow and the J scene are different, but it still comes down to viability secondary to non ski related funding. I see very little difference in recruiting young millionaires or foreign millionaires to invest in a dominating percentage of non ski related development. I was just surprised and a little amused that some here found it potentially damaging to the pow mow experience.

so, why is it different?

IMO its different because the funding is being utilized in different manners.

Summit is an organization based on bring entrepreneurs together to talk, network, etc with big time speakers, etc. In the past they have done this at PowMow, on cruise ships, or what have you. This provides them with a "home base" so to speak to operate out of, and a more year round venue where smaller groups of members can keep on keepin on.

Jay on the other hand has taken the EB5 money and used it to expand, develop, build a water park, buy Burke and so on. I would argue this has much more of an impact financially and to the local "vibe" so to speak opposed to Summit.

Now it easy to be skeptical of both scenarios, but projecting worst case outcomes opposed to real world reality is not something to get worked up about.

 

[kingdom-tele]

real world reality. you mean like carving out the forest to create an atmosphere more conducive for people not comfortable in the forest.

again. summit wants a private club from the sounds of it. that stirs up negative tones. JPR is catering to the money lined pockets at the expense of their gift. that is considered essential.

its confounding.

 

[AdironRider]

real world reality. you mean like carving out the forest to create an atmosphere more conducive for people not comfortable in the forest.

again. summit wants a private club from the sounds of it. that stirs up negative tones. JPR is catering to the money lined pockets at the expense of their gift. that is considered essential.

its confounding.

Exhibit A: Projecting.

 

[thetrailboss]

again. summit wants a private club from the sounds of it. that stirs up negative tones. JPR is catering to the money lined pockets at the expense of their gift. that is considered essential.

its confounding.

:blink: What?

 

[snoseek]

real world reality. you mean like carving out the forest to create an atmosphere more conducive for people not comfortable in the forest.

again. summit wants a private club from the sounds of it. that stirs up negative tones. JPR is catering to the money lined pockets at the expense of their gift. that is considered essential.

its confounding.

IDK but I've followed every piece of info I can find on this and can't find any evidence saying they want a private club other than people talking and speculating on message boards, social media, ect...


Think about it, the place hopefully gets a financial shot in the arm by people that aren't really skiers. I bet five years from now you'll still be seeing untracked lines for days off the Paradise lift. Maybe I'm be overly optimistic but I feel like this all is not that big of a deal.

 

[kingdom-tele]

IDK but I've followed every piece of info I can find on this and can't find any evidence saying they want a private club other than people talking and speculating on message boards, social media, ect...


Think about it, the place hopefully gets a financial shot in the arm by people that aren't really skiers. I bet five years from now you'll still be seeing untracked lines for days off the Paradise lift. Maybe I'm be overly optimistic but I feel like this all is not that big of a deal.

nor do I.

saying it was to be a private club was intended to highlight the fact the pow mow purchase will have very little effect on the current ski usage or access to the ski experience that is pow mow

meanwhile, another similar investment scenario (non ski interested investors) is having direct effect on the ski experience and local access.

/projecting.

 

[thetrailboss]

meanwhile, another similar investment scenario (non ski interested investors) is having direct effect on the ski experience and local access.

/projecting.

Hold on a second....

JPR's EB-5 investors did not call the shots as to the development at Jay. They only provided the financing. Jay, and its management team, decided what to develop, including ski related amenities.

 

[kingdom-tele]

Hold on a second....

JPR's EB-5 investors did not call the shots as to the development at Jay. They only provided the financing. Jay, and its management team, decided what to develop, including ski related amenities.

correct.

amenities to entice clientele that has a very different ideal ski experience. oe could even say completely unrelated to skiing.

without millions in pocket, how would this enhancement be different?

still wondering why the reflexive response to pow mow's purchase was so negative, it is clearly the shot in the arm any ski resort needs, right?

 

[dlo55]

I have never got out to Utah to ski, but I am hoping to get out there this year or next? What is the best mountain out there?

 

[thetrailboss]

correct.

still wondering why the reflexive response to pow mow's purchase was so negative, it is clearly the shot in the arm any ski resort needs, right?

If you read what I have said you would see my point...in that it does not appear that they are focused on the ski resort's needs, if any.

 

[kingdom-tele]

I have two concerns. First, despite what they say, they will exclude people. I imagine their events are very expensive and aimed at including the "in-crowd." I can see them coming in and pushing the locals out because the yoga classes don't mix well with the dirtbag skiers and snowboarders who drive up in their rusted cars looking for pow. Their new "lodge," if it is what I think it is, sits right on the main access road by the main parking lot and dwarfs the very rustic daylodge (think Mid-Burke Lodge-esque). If you are coming up to ski and see that you will quickly get it that you are an outsider. And second, their utopian vision does not necessarily guarantee that they will be able to successfully run a ski area. Just because they have famous folks come and hang out with them does not mean that they have what it takes to run the place well. As one of their videos says, the first thing that they did was not to announce a new lift or to add some snowmaking equipment; the first thing that they did was built a "nest" of sustainable material that was woven together so that you could climb up and take in the view.

so why the above concerns?

You and I aren't so different it seems TB. only my version of amentities is not the cluster and carving up J is very efficiently getting done.

 

[riverc0il]

Hold on a second....

JPR's EB-5 investors did not call the shots as to the development at Jay. They only provided the financing. Jay, and its management team, decided what to develop, including ski related amenities.

oh COME ON. Like investors just hand over money without knowing HOW their money is being invested. No way. EB-5 investors are being given very detailed information on how their money is going to be spent. Jay may be making decisions but if they are not investing in a way that the investors think is financially prudent, the investors won't invest. They don't get their paperwork if their investments fails... so they want to ensure they are investing in a business plan that makes financial sense. There is a difference only in a small degree.

kingdom-tele agian makes a GREAT point that in both cases (at least as far as we can tell from the press release) that build up is happening on non-skiing related things. I have been somewhat critical of kingdom-tele's perspective on Burke and Jay but he is right to call hypocrisy here for those defending Jay but then also attacking the new planned direction of PowMow.

 

[riverc0il]

If you read what I have said you would see my point...in that it does not appear that they are focused on the ski resort's needs, if any.

So they don't touch the resort, build themselves a private circle, and they don't effect the resort, and this is a problem, how? They certainly wouldn't buy the place and let it go to crap, that is their multi -million dollar private community on the line that will tank if the resort tanks, right? I just don't see the issue here based on what I have read so far.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be concerned too if ownership changed at my favorite area. But if they just wanted to build a few private buildings away from the major activity and are going to keep the area open and policies the same and what not, I don't see the cause for anything more than general concern during a change in ownership. The response on here was akin to putting a high speed quad in a MRG.

 

[thetrailboss]

oh COME ON. Like investors just hand over money without knowing HOW their money is being invested. No way. EB-5 investors are being given very detailed information on how their money is going to be spent. Jay may be making decisions but if they are not investing in a way that the investors think is financially prudent, the investors won't invest. They don't get their paperwork if their investments fails... so they want to ensure they are investing in a business plan that makes financial sense. There is a difference only in a small degree.

Read KT's post. He said that the EB-5 investors were the ones who demanded, and drove, the changes at Jay. That's not true. Jay developed the plans for the investors to put their money into. Jay drove the plans.

kingdom-tele agian makes a GREAT point that in both cases (at least as far as we can tell from the press release) that build up is happening on non-skiing related things. I have been somewhat critical of kingdom-tele's perspective on Burke and Jay but he is right to call hypocrisy here for those defending Jay but then also attacking the new planned direction of PowMow.

Wrong again. For a guy usually so hung up on details you haven't even bothered to read what I said. My point was, and still is, that I am skeptical about this group and their plans. Mainly because they don't have any ski resort management experience. That is the key distinction between Jay and this group that you are ignoring.

And as to the other concerns, I drove up there in October and the clubhouse is RIGHT in the middle of the upper parking lot and within site of the main lodge, which is quite old and shopworn. I don't know how the locals and diehards are going to get along with these folks and their private lodge and gated community. I don't know how these folks are going to react when their Yoga class is interrupted by the sound of a beat-up truck with kids looking to go ride the pow. Maybe it won't be a problem...maybe it will. This is just a discussion. But these again are concerns I had raised that either you missed or are just not giving credit to. Instead, you indirectly call me a hypocrite, which makes me laugh because the real hypocrisy is that you try to nit-pick away at what I say and never even pay attention or even give credit to what has been said.

 

[kingdom-tele]

he did not say that. apologies for cryptic word use.

if it was the money lined pockets you are referring to TB, I was in reference to the uptick in skiers that demand more intermediate terrain at the expense of the wood skiing at J, see also my reference to carving up the forest for people who don't feel comfortable in forests.

A place like pow mow is unique, no? Its not fancy. On top of that they are keeping the fancy separated from the local usage.

Jay is unique too, no? Burke even more so IMO.

So how much is losing what makes you unique worth in the name of resort profitability, not viability.

You rail me as an anti development quack, yet spout about the importance of a quality ski experience. You can't see the irony in your concern about pow mows secret society lodge but are bouncing on the edge of the bed at hotel jay clapping with joy as their daily operating costs are gradually being driven sky high. Your concerns for how a group of utopian rich folks can run a ski resort are similar to mine. What happens when the EB well is dry- I have some hesitation thinking a group that is used to running and living in a low key, no frills region really is performing an award winning service for the dirtbags here that your so concerned about utah.

I just found it amusing.

Best of luck pow mow. I love it there and will be back soon.

dirtbags unite!

 

[thetrailboss]

he did not say that. apologies for cryptic word use.

if it was the money lined pockets you are referring to TB, I was in reference to the uptick in skiers that demand more intermediate terrain at the expense of the wood skiing at J, see also my reference to carving up the forest for people who don't feel comfortable in forests.

A place like pow mow is unique, no? Its not fancy. On top of that they are keeping the fancy separated from the local usage.

Jay is unique too, no? Burke even more so IMO.

So how much is losing what makes you unique worth in the name of resort profitability, not viability.

You rail me as an anti development quack, yet spout about the importance of a quality ski experience. You can't see the irony in your concern about pow mows secret society lodge but are bouncing on the edge of the bed at hotel jay clapping with joy as their daily operating costs are gradually being driven sky high. Your concerns for how a group of utopian rich folks can run a ski resort are similar to mine. What happens when the EB well is dry- I have some hesitation thinking a group that is used to running and living in a low key, no frills region really is performing an award winning service for the dirtbags here that your so concerned about utah.

I just found it amusing.

Best of luck pow mow. I love it there and will be back soon.

dirtbags unite!

I've said what I've said. It's here in black and white and folks have chimed in and added their two cents. You came in and have projected your views onto this thread and me. It's hard to have a discussion when folks don't pay attention to what has been said or attempt to reconvey it in such broad strokes.

I honestly don't know what your beef is with Jay and don't really care. You complain about how hard it is to live, etc. and then bitch when someone proposes a multifaceted plan that would bring great paying jobs to the poorest part of the state (specifically the 500 or so high tech jobs that are coming to Newport). You also don't seem to understand, or want to understand, the realities of running a ski resort/area or making one successful.

And to the point this thread is about Pow Mow and this recent purchase. It is a thread to talk about concerns, developments, etc.

 

[kingdom-tele]

I've said what I've said. It's here in black and white and folks have chimed in and added their two cents. You came in and have projected your views onto this thread and me. It's hard to have a discussion when folks don't pay attention to what has been said or attempt to reconvey it in such broad strokes.

I honestly don't know what your beef is with Jay and don't really care. You complain about how hard it is to live, etc. and then bitch when someone proposes a multifaceted plan that would bring great paying jobs to the poorest part of the state (specifically the 500 or so high tech jobs that are coming to Newport). You also don't seem to understand, or want to understand, the realities of running a ski resort/area or making one successful.

And to the point this thread is about Pow Mow and this recent purchase. It is a thread to talk about concerns, developments, etc.

Its a thread about concerns. I thought the medium included everyone. Apologies for intruding on the discussion with what I perceived to be a conflict in your stance on ski area viability. I was just surprised you would be so negative about an influx of money to a well worn ski hill.

With regards to projecting. I have never complained about living here. In fact I feel blessed to be able to earn a living here. So I take exception to your judgement. I am not anti development, I have said as much before. I am not even against parcels of Jay's vision, I have also said as much before. I am against businesses looking over the residents of its area to suffice its revenues in the name of false salvation. I do not understand the ins and outs of ski resort operations. But, it doesn't take a phd in economics to realize when a place renowned for simplicity and glade skiing is sacrificing both they are rolling a red carpet for a different clientele. But bigger is better I suppose.

Whether its pow mow, burke, J, or some other simplistic ski hill under the gun of big money development its potentially another basic ski experience gone to the wayside in pursuit of revenue, not remaining viable.

whatever. this is a terrible way to have a discussion. not even sure why I felt the need to respond.