Pro and cons of ski areas staying open when no one is skiing!

[sugarbushskier]

I've skied in all types of weather and actually like the heavy snow blizzard like conditions at times when the slopes are empty and runs just keep filling in with new snow. BUT, I detest skiing when wet weather requires constant goggle cleaning/icing etc when visibility is nil.

My question here is when does an area just shut down for the day when no one is there. I'm looking at the Sugarbush webcam and know today is one of those days when "most" folks aren't going to want to ski. Is is pride to say they've been open non-stop since their opening date or can they be realistic and just shut down and keep their operating costs down to focus on better weather conditions?

I know many mountains are keeping a closer eye on costs this year after last season and we all hope (and anticipate with great optimism that there's a regression to the norm), but when do you just call it what it is?

 

[ScottySkis]

I know hunter and mountain snow are today a f tommorow . I think they stay open for employees more then anyone else on these days.

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[dlague]

In recall a couple of season ago when we had deep freezes with crazy wind chill many ski areas shut down.

High winds often shut down ski areas as well.

You can do a search and find the articles on both above.

Rain, well it appears not so much at least during mid season. Early/late season would be plausible.

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[Jully]

Skiing in the rain can actually be so much fun! Mainly because no one is there and I find the snow to actually hold up nicely midseason. No boilerplate when its actually raining! Early season that's another issue though.

 

[ss20]

Keeps employees and passholders happy. Passholders want to ski every day. Employees have to make their money. Taking a "day off" is not in the plans for either party.

Rain can also mess up a multi-week lesson program.

 

[dlague]

Keeps employees and passholders happy. Passholders want to ski every day. Employees have to make their money. Taking a "day off" is not in the plans for either party.

Rain can also mess up a multi-week lesson program.

True school program in Concord was rain or shine - only extreme cold could cancel and there was only one make up day.

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[deadheadskier]

Timely thread. Wildcat just announced they will be closed tomorrow and Thursday due to the rain. Even if I was a retired passholder who skied every day, I wouldn't have a problem with this choice. Money lost early-mid season means reduced schedule late season. Last year they closed at least a week earlier than they could have. Had they been more profitable peak season, that might not have happened.



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[Jully]

Timely thread. Wildcat just announced they will be closed tomorrow and Thursday due to the rain. Even if I was a retired passholder who skied every day, I wouldn't have a problem with this choice. Money lost early-mid season means reduced schedule late season. Last year they closed at least a week earlier than they could have. Had they been more profitable peak season, that might not have happened.



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Agreed on both accounts. I prefer late season to early season, and losing money is never something I want for a resort.

 

[sugarbushskier]

Agreed and the reason why it pains me to see unsupported ski areas when in reality, no one really wants to be there.

Let's just hope that the early season precipitation trend (albeit some rain vs snow), continues as the weather pattern gets colder.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think places like Sugarbush it's a bit more complicated of a decision to close due to slopeside lodging. Between the ski and stay packages and folks living in the condos who might do a lap or two out of boredom, there's more of a chance of alienating customers. The smaller areas with no lodging can run a bit looser with their schedule.

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[sugarbushskier]

That's a really good point DHS. I guess i never really considered that clientele as in my 30 years in the Valley I always made a conscious decision to ski or not ski, but if I was slope side and bored then hell yeah, I would've taken a run or three....

 

[Not Sure]

I worked at "Little Gap" now Blue mountain years ago . One night it was rainy and fogged in there were two kids left on the mountain . Management offered free passes for future skiing if they quit. "No Deal" the kept all of the lifts running for 3hrs for two people.

 

[cdskier]

That's a really good point DHS. I guess i never really considered that clientele as in my 30 years in the Valley I always made a conscious decision to ski or not ski, but if I was slope side and bored then hell yeah, I would've taken a run or three....

I've skied in the rain before. Actually last December was a perfect example. Sugarbush had a few inches of snow over the weekend along with some good snowmaking weather. They just opened Ripcord. I drove up Sunday night expecting to have a nice day on Monday with the mountain all to myself with what would have been the best conditions of the season up to that point. Monday morning the wind was howling. In the LP parking lot it practically blew me over when I got out of my car. Sat in the lodge hoping the wind would die down...finally at noon they announced they weren't opening due to the wind. Forecast for Tuesday was saying rain later in the day. Got out for first chair on Tuesday and half way up Super Bravo it started to rain. Skied all morning in the rain as I wasn't about to have driven all the way up there and never get out skiing. I think I drove back home on Wednesday since Thursday was Christmas Eve.

 

[Edd]

I'm a huge weekday skier, but I fear that most areas will become weekend only operations, with exceptions for holiday weeks.

 

[Jully]

I'm a huge weekday skier, but I fear that most areas will become weekend only operations, with exceptions for holiday weeks.

That would be awful!!

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

I'm a huge weekday skier, but I fear that most areas will become weekend only operations, with exceptions for holiday weeks.

They'll be cutting their own throats. I'm sure there's a lot out there like me that will ONLY ski mid-week, due to their jobs, or absolute refusal to deal with the weekend crowds.

When the "product" is skied off before noon on a weekend... you couldn't pay me to ski there...

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm a huge weekday skier, but I fear that most areas will become weekend only operations, with exceptions for holiday weeks.

I don't think "most" areas will, but it probably makes business sense to rethink the shoulder seasons for some areas.

For all intents and purposes, the profit season for NE ski areas is Christmas week through President's week. It makes sense for probably 95+% of areas to be open 7 days a week during that time. Maybe not community hills or mid-sized areas in the middle of no where like Big Rock, ME. Outside of that period, I think business dictated scheduling specific to each resort is appropriate.

I think about this from time to time with Wildcat. To me the ideal schedule for the Cat would be

Open as soon as you can in November
Run weekends only until Thanksgiving
Run Thursday - Monday from Thanksgiving until Christmas
7 days a week from there until about St. Patrick's Day
Back to Thursday - Monday from St. Patrick's Day until middle of April
Weekend's only from there until 2nd weekend in May, so roughly May 10th.

The idea is the that the money saved by reduced early season operations means more frequent trail refreshes mid-season and base building on key trails to go deep into spring. Offer the longest season possible and have the resources available to put forth the best product you can during the money season. Reinvest profits in snowmaking technology that can blow terrain open fast. If Wildcat had Sunday River's snowmaking system, they'd be have 100% of snowmaking terrain open for Christmas week basically every year. They only have about 150 acres of snowmaking terrain to cover.

The downsides to such a schedule are:

There are occasional great early season weather / snow event days that you might be closed for midweek. There are also some great spring corn days you might be closed for, but there's just not enough customers to justify being open for many places during that time.

Fewer hours throughout the season for staff. But perhaps with responsible ownership that means the added profits means better wages for employees when they do work. I'd rather work 10 hours at $15 per than 15 hours at $10 per.

 

[joshua segal]

At Crotched Mtn., I've seen them close and/or suspend operations on days when all booked groups cancel, no paying customers are skiing and the forecast does not indicate the storm will stop. Lightening is also a show-stopper.

It's a difficult call. There was a day last winter that the mountain suspended ops and when the sun came out in the late afternoon, the guests who arrived for night skiing were seriously POed.

 

[joshua segal]

Regarding weekday operations:
My friend who is leading the re-opening of Saddleback looked through years of data on non-holiday weekday operations. It turns out, that it averages out to break even, but there was no pattern to the seriously profitable weekdays.

Pico's owner has the luxury of Killington, so closing on weekdays, doesn't impact their season ticket sales. Peak Resorts since taking over Wildcat has the luxury of closing one of the resorts (Attitash or Wildcat) in case of horrific weather while allowing any die-hards to still have a place to ski.

I would assume that season ticket sales would suffer if the season pass had no provision for the occasional weekday that pass-holders want to ski.

 

[dlague]

I thought Magic and Pico did not spin lifts a couple of mid week days. Like Tuesday and Wednesday? That seems to make sense most the time.

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