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Domeskier

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I get a kick out of the race parents sweating in their ankle-length parkas along the kiddie race courses on 50-degree days. Way to go all in!
 

BenedictGomez

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there's just a level of money from most of the parent's that is absolutely crazy!!!

The money isnt the problem. The attitude that "stuff" has no value because we'll just buy more if it's lost/stolen/broken is a problem, and will tend to lead to spoiled human beings.

If there is merit to the argument of keeping the wax at snow temperature, then perhaps the mountains hosting the races could be proactive and fence off an area with signage for the racers to store their skis.

I'd like to hear more on this. My W.A.G. is that it's myth for two reasons:

1) As was already said by Smellytele, the bases will be exposed to air on the ride up and then placed on snow for a small period of time prior to the race start. I doubt any (literally any) difference in actual temperature would be observed with say an IR laser thermometer.

2) If anything, wouldn't it actually be a slight (though again this seems silly) benefit if the base of the skis were in fact 1/10th of a degree warmer than the snow surface to slightly enhance the melt necessary for decreased friction (i.e. movement)? In other words, just thinking about this scientifically, if we assumed the "base on snow" trick works at all, I'd think it would be a disadvantage, not an advantage, though I think the whole thing seems specious to begin with. Unless of course it's a very cold day like 5 degrees, so the air is colder than the snow surface, but again, then we're back to #1.
 

VTKilarney

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BenedictGomez

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I know that the myth about ice skates melting ice has been debunked. If ice skate blades don't melt anything, it's hard for me to believe that skis do.

Has it been debunked? Seems to me movement must generate heat along the surface (snow or ice) boundary. Physics was my worst of the science disciplines, but I do recall movement creates heat in thermodynamics.
 

yeggous

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Has it been debunked? Seems to me movement must generate heat along the surface (snow or ice) boundary. Physics was my worst of the science disciplines, but I do recall movement creates heat in thermodynamics.

It's not the friction but the pressure that melts the ice. Most substances will turn from liquid to solid when additional pressure is applied, but water is the exception. At a given temperature if you apply additional pressure, it will turn to a liquid. The skiing / skating connection here is that the pressure created by the steel edge / blade will tend to melt the ice creating a thin layer of water which reduces the friction. I have no idea if this happens in reality.

See the phase diagram for water:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#/media/File:Phase_diagram_of_water_simplified.svg
At the freezing point of water at typical atmospheric pressures, increase the pressure (up along the y-axis) will change the solid to a liquid.
 

dlague

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Looked at the OP - I have seen this at Cannon often - just ski over them! BTW it drives me nuts and I posted a thread about this years ago. At Vail resorts that is a no go! It happens a little at A Basin but generally out of the way.
 

KustyTheKlown

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racer kids are the worst. seeing them try to cut the line at burke last week and getting forcefully denied by the lifty was sweet.
 

cdskier

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racer kids are the worst. seeing them try to cut the line at burke last week and getting forcefully denied by the lifty was sweet.

I think some young kids in general seem to have entitlement problems. Last week at Sugarbush I saw a few kids going into the "Ski School Only" line without an instructor. One kid seemed to think it wasn't right but another in the group said "we'll just say we got separated from our group".
 

The Sneak

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Everybody hates racer kids, right? The most entitled little $hits I have ever dealt with, they make sailing / yacht club kids seem like Eagle Scouts by comparison.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BenedictGomez

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Guys, seriously, it's a myth. The pressure created by an ice skater is ten times less than is required to melt the ice.
Think about it. If every ski was melting the snow, we would see a sheet of blue ice on every trail by the end of the day.

I'm not talking about pressure, I'm saying that I think some near microscopic melt must be occurring at the boundary of snow/skis that aids in sliding. The "melt" would be an imperceptible level, not a river of water behind you.
 

Smellytele

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I think some young kids in general seem to have entitlement problems. Last week at Sugarbush I saw a few kids going into the "Ski School Only" line without an instructor. One kid seemed to think it wasn't right but another in the group said "we'll just say we got separated from our group".

Yesterday at Pats peak 2 racer girls got in the single's line for a double chair (not sure why have a single's line for a double but that is a different story). When they were next in line they both went, some people said something and they said "singles can ride up together. What's you're problem?"
 

Pez

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burn them as an offering to the snow god, or old man winter or whatever.
 

KustyTheKlown

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the problem with that one is having a singles line for a double chair. if the only groups are doubles and quads breaking up in to 2s, then of course the singles would just pair up. stupid line is stupid. racer kids still suck.
 

VTKilarney

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I'm not talking about pressure, I'm saying that I think some near microscopic melt must be occurring at the boundary of snow/skis that aids in sliding. The "melt" would be an imperceptible level, not a river of water behind you.

If it isn't pressure, then what would cause melting?
 
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