Re: EB-5 article

[Jully]

Are people really complaining about immigration as an issue with eb-5? I feel like is the least of the issues with it. The immigration thing is kind of ridiculous.

The fraud is real though, very real.

 

[drjeff]

The problem is that locals aren't working as chambermaids or lifties. Instead they have to bring in foreign workers to do these jobs. Yes, there are a few local professional jobs maintained, but I think that resorts aren't really creating well-paying jobs NNE needs.


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Aren't or Won't?

The reality is that with any development, the jobs created are eventually going be much more "lower level" than "higher level" jobs. To think that some may expect that ALL jobs created by EB-5 investment funds are going to be say 6 figure jobs, is quite naive by those who may think that way.

The reality is that EB-5 investment brings both investment money into the US for projects that may not get done otherwise that will have a much greater short term boost to a local economy than long term additions. Lastly those folks who are putting up the EB-5 money aren't realistically going to be adding to the ever increasing social welfare program costs that the majority of current day immigrants are.

Win/win in my book, regardless of the other shortcomings the program has

 

[thetrailboss]

Are people really complaining about immigration as an issue with eb-5? I feel like is the least of the issues with it. The immigration thing is kind of ridiculous.

The fraud is real though, very real.

The issue is that some don't think it's right that the rich buy citizenship. I don't agree with that criticism, but that's the concern.


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[Jully]

The issue is that some don't think it's right that the rich buy citizenship. I don't agree with that criticism, but that's the concern.


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Okay I can understand that argument then. I thought it came from a more anti Chinese immigrant stance.

 

[thetrailboss]

Okay I can understand that argument then. I thought it came from a more anti Chinese immigrant stance.

Nah, it's just the question of do we want to let folks "cut the line" or pay to become citizens. I'll have to post the WCAX story on who does EB5 and why. ROI is not the main interest...the Green Card is.


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[thetrailboss]

Aren't or Won't?

The reality is that with any development, the jobs created are eventually going be much more "lower level" than "higher level" jobs. To think that some may expect that ALL jobs created by EB-5 investment funds are going to be say 6 figure jobs, is quite naive by those who may think that way.

The reality is that EB-5 investment brings both investment money into the US for projects that may not get done otherwise that will have a much greater short term boost to a local economy than long term additions. Lastly those folks who are putting up the EB-5 money aren't realistically going to be adding to the ever increasing social welfare program costs that the majority of current day immigrants are.

Win/win in my book, regardless of the other shortcomings the program has

Aren't vs. weren't is a good point. It's a little of both.


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[HowieT2]

The problem is that locals aren't working as chambermaids or lifties. Instead they have to bring in foreign workers to do these jobs. Yes, there are a few local professional jobs maintained, but I think that resorts aren't really creating well-paying jobs NNE needs.


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thats not necessarily true. Before sugarbush embarked on its eb5 capital improvements, the peripheral seasonal workers, the cashiers and so on, were kids from South America who came to the U.S. For the summer. Since eb5, they are all locals. Now, you can poo poo those kind of jobs, but they are providing an income to a bunch of families and therefore contributing to the local economy.

 

[HowieT2]

Agreed. But the criticism is two-fold. For some projects there has been little or no oversight from regulators leading to lots of questions and concern about fraud. Vermont is (slowly) waking up to this issue. Second is the immigration issue that some don't like. In theory it is a good idea.


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thats all very well and good and I don't disagree, but those issues don't mean the program as a whole isn't a net positive for the economy.

 

[HowieT2]

Nah, it's just the question of do we want to let folks "cut the line" or pay to become citizens. I'll have to post the WCAX story on who does EB5 and why. ROI is not the main interest...the Green Card is.


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which is exactly why the program is worthwhile. Foreigners are pumping capital that wouldn't otherwise be invested in the U.S. Economy in exchange for visas which cost us 'nothing.

 

[HowieT2]

The issue is that some don't think it's right that the rich buy citizenship. I don't agree with that criticism, but that's the concern.


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not my concern. Not going to attract foreign capital from those without capital.

 

[HowieT2]

Are people really complaining about immigration as an issue with eb-5? I feel like is the least of the issues with it. The immigration thing is kind of ridiculous.

The fraud is real though, very real.

but who is getting hurt by any fraud? Wealthy foreigners, so who cares. And they are getting the visas they paid for anyway.

 

[deadheadskier]

Aren't or Won't?

The reality is that with any development, the jobs created are eventually going be much more "lower level" than "higher level" jobs. To think that some may expect that ALL jobs created by EB-5 investment funds are going to be say 6 figure jobs, is quite naive by those who may think that way.

The reality is that EB-5 investment brings both investment money into the US for projects that may not get done otherwise that will have a much greater short term boost to a local economy than long term additions. Lastly those folks who are putting up the EB-5 money aren't realistically going to be adding to the ever increasing social welfare program costs that the majority of current day immigrants are.

Win/win in my book, regardless of the other shortcomings the program has

This sums up my feelings as well. EB-5 = not perfect, but better than doing nothing at all.

 

[cdskier]

thats not necessarily true. Before sugarbush embarked on its eb5 capital improvements, the peripheral seasonal workers, the cashiers and so on, were kids from South America who came to the U.S. For the summer. Since eb5, they are all locals. Now, you can poo poo those kind of jobs, but they are providing an income to a bunch of families and therefore contributing to the local economy.

I agree those are absolutely worthwhile jobs and I'm happy to see SB not hiring International workers for those jobs anymore. Is there a direct relation to SB using EB-5 investors though? Their website simply says they no longer participate in the H2B visa program anymore. I thought I vaguely remember some reasoning being mentioned at some point years ago when they first stopped participating, but I don't remember whether it was related at all to the EB5 program.

 

[thetrailboss]

Re: EB-5 article

thats not necessarily true. Before sugarbush embarked on its eb5 capital improvements, the peripheral seasonal workers, the cashiers and so on, were kids from South America who came to the U.S. For the summer. Since eb5, they are all locals. Now, you can poo poo those kind of jobs, but they are providing an income to a bunch of families and therefore contributing to the local economy.

To be VERY clear I did NOT pass judgment on those jobs. Not at all.

And Sugarbush did change workforce (I noticed that too) but that was a SB decision regarding pay and benefits because other areas rely on foreign help.

Also I will note that I shared your view at one time – – that any job was a good job. However considering the high cost of living in Vermont these jobs are not a plus at all. I will save the discussion about Vermont's political/economic issues for another time.


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[thetrailboss]

which is exactly why the program is worthwhile. Foreigners are pumping capital that wouldn't otherwise be invested in the U.S. Economy in exchange for visas which cost us 'nothing.

It's not my criticism--it's what is said.


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[thetrailboss]

but who is getting hurt by any fraud? Wealthy foreigners, so who cares. And they are getting the visas they paid for anyway.

Wow. Who is hurt by fraud? We all are! Geesh, why have rules at all?

The program is getting more oversight and that's good...ensures that everyone gets the intended benefits (including us)


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[Jully]

but who is getting hurt by any fraud? Wealthy foreigners, so who cares. And they are getting the visas they paid for anyway.

Yeah. I'm a huge fan of any resorts especially getting capital, but I'm not a fan and agree that we are all hurt if someone gets rich from putting this foreign capital largely in their pockets as opposed to into the project itself.

 

[VTKilarney]

That's really the issue - the lack of any substantive oversight.


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[HowieT2]

Yeah. I'm a huge fan of any resorts especially getting capital, but I'm not a fan and agree that we are all hurt if someone gets rich from putting this foreign capital largely in their pockets as opposed to into the project itself.

Alls im saying is, it's Just like any other investment, subject to the same criminal and civil laws. And the risk of failure for whatever reason. I don't think the govt. should be in the business of insuring these eb5 projects. Some oversight and regulation is fine, but not to the point of guaranteeing the investments.

 

[thetrailboss]

Alls im saying is, it's Just like any other investment, subject to the same criminal and civil laws. And the risk of failure for whatever reason. I don't think the govt. should be in the business of insuring these eb5 projects. Some oversight and regulation is fine, but not to the point of guaranteeing the investments.

I don't think anyone thought the government should insure or ensure success.


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