Re: EB-5 article

[Jully]

Alls im saying is, it's Just like any other investment, subject to the same criminal and civil laws. And the risk of failure for whatever reason. I don't think the govt. should be in the business of insuring these eb5 projects. Some oversight and regulation is fine, but not to the point of guaranteeing the investments.

Oh gosh yeah no the last thing that should happen is the government insuring and guaranteeing these investments. That'd be absolutely horrible!

 

[VTKilarney]

Alls im saying is, it's Just like any other investment, subject to the same criminal and civil laws.

Those laws are meaningless if there is no oversight.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Alls im saying is, it's Just like any other investment, subject to the same criminal and civil laws.

Ehhhh, it's pretty clear you haven't been following this situation very closely over the last few years.

This has literally been the worst instance of a complete failure of financial oversight over an extremely large sum of money that I've ever seen in my entire life (no hyperbole or exaggeration). Government incompetence isn't even required when there's willful neglect.

 

[HowieT2]

Ehhhh, it's pretty clear you haven't been following this situation very closely over the last few years.

This has literally been the worst instance of a complete failure of financial oversight over an extremely large sum of money that I've ever seen in my entire life (no hyperbole or exaggeration). Government incompetence isn't even required when there's willful neglect.

Whats clear is that you prefer hyperbole and exaggeration to reasonable discourse.

 

[thetrailboss]

FWIW this was the national scandal that got the Fed's attention and has sparked new oversight: http://fortune.com/2014/08/27/eb-5-promoter-indicted/

As for Vermont, the issue has been allegations made by EB-5 investors for Jay Peak of wrongdoing. Specifically, Tram Haus investors had an equity share in the project and apparently Stenger and Quiros quietly converted those interests into unsecured debt without telling the investors beforehand. The terms were also extended (with a big balloon payment at the end). This caused some to complain to the State of Vermont, which was boasting about how well they oversaw projects as the "government run EB-5 center" when in fact they had no idea how to do any oversight. I think this has quieted down now....nothing lately from VTDigger. That said, Vermont also made changes into how they run EB-5 by splitting promotional work from regulatory/oversight work.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Whats clear is that you prefer hyperbole and exaggeration to reasonable discourse.

Please explain?

Since you disagree, you can start with which part of this has ever been "reasonable" from day one, from the perspective of financial control.

 

[djd66]

I can not understand for the life of me - how anyone could be against the EB-5 program! You have foreign "investors" bringing $500,000 to the US to be used in construction projects. The investors really just want a green card - which they get. Most if not ALL of these construction projects would not get done if it were not for this money. Then you have tons of tourists going to the Mtns + spending money in the local economy - again, none of this money would be around if we did not have the EB-5 program. Bottom line - $500,000 coming from China is a good thing + I welcome it.

 

[luvinjaycloud]

Whats clear is that you prefer hyperbole and exaggeration to reasonable discourse.

Told ya!

I still have to yet to see fraud in the VT/Jaypeak use of the program, as our moderater pointed out. I guess benedict must have read the prospectus to know what Jay could or couldn't do regarding its debt on the tramhouse lodge....It is called debt....correct?

By the way, Bernie could have been using a big 4 accounting firm and not his buddy in an office in white plains NY. Think a regulator would have caught that? Jeez, an investor or two maybe should have done a little due diligence?

Let Adam Smith reign!!!!!! Glad to see some followers here!

:smash::lol::-D

 

[BenedictGomez]

Most if not ALL of these construction projects would not get done if it were not for this money.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. There's a reason they weren't funded in the first place.

And the unintended consequences of artificially meddling in markets, especially small ones, will ultimately often be worse than any perceived benefit.

Let Adam Smith reign!!!!!! Glad to see some followers here!

If you understood who Adam Smith was, and what his theories were, you wouldn't say that, as Adam Smith would most certainly be against EB-5 were he alive today.

Smith believed in free markets, was wholly and totally against any outside or artificial meddling in markets, against government intervention in markets, and believed that unaided battling between competitors was the healthiest thing for innovation and the economy. Actually, Adam Smith might be the worst possible example you could have given.

I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

 

[luvinjaycloud]

Funny, telling, but not surprising you think that. As for the value of your awarded points, on my book they are worth zero. (Graham and Dodge). God bless you!

 

[djd66]

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. There's a reason they weren't funded in the first place.

And the unintended consequences of artificially meddling in markets, especially small ones, will ultimately often be worse than any perceived

So what is wrong with the development at Jay? I think they did an incredible job.

 

[kingdom-tele]

1. They can't employ a full staff from the local available pool of potential workers.

 

[Big Wave Dave]

1. They can't employ a full staff from the local available pool of potential workers.

can you elaborate on this? how do they run then? I know I have heard compliants about low pay, but I have never had an issue in 40+ days at jay last year where there was no one to pour a beer, run a lift, etc. Where is the staffing impact felt? have heard nothing but good things aout the loding and the waterpark certainly is going gangbusters.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Funny, telling, but not surprising you think that.

Yes, because unlike you (obviously), I actually know who Adam Smith was, and what his economic theories were.

 

[BenedictGomez]

can you elaborate on this? how do they run then?

I cant speak to Jay specifically, but in general he's correct.

Many if not most mountains have to bring folks in from (somewhat) near and far to reach full staffing. Even Stowe, which is considered to have an embarrassment of riches, I can tell you when I worked there they short-term employed a ton of people from far away, numerous internationals etc...

 

[Jully]

I cant speak to Jay specifically, but in general he's correct.

Many if not most mountains have to bring folks in from (somewhat) near and far to reach full staffing. Even Stowe, which is considered to have an embarrassment of riches, I can tell you when I worked there they short-term employed a ton of people from far away, numerous internationals etc...

Not speaking about EB-5, but yeah I've seen that too and it strikes me as more of a big resort in a rural area problem. Big resorts can make money and still have difficulty filling jobs if it's a rural enough area.

I don't give it too much weight in terms of judging the viability of the business though.

 

[kingdom-tele]

When a project is promoted as a resource for a local community, and then fails to be a resource for the people of that community, it would seem appropriate to change the marketing tune. There is a loss of brand loyalty occurring within the community. What is good for business is not the same as what is good for the local unemployed; yet the marketing of these projects continues to be centered around providing jobs. JPR has created a revolving door for those working the majority of these low wage jobs. They have little trouble seeing people as numbers now. I am sure it is good for business, but it is a farce to claim it is altruism behind these projects.

This was supposed to become an island for employment potential, and the majority of people looking for work now make JPR a place of last resort knowing there is no longevity or room for growth, sadly, they have seen from others who have worked there the new brand of callousness that comes with progress. The same is occurring at Burke, there is something wrong IMO.

 

[Smellytele]

What is better no jobs living off the US government or low wage jobs paid for by the Chinese?

 

[dlague]

Well I come from that area and a majority of the jobs are low wage. Most of the locals that move on to higher education typically move away. I come from a family of 5 and we all moved to southern NH and 1 in up State NY. While some may return to NEK there aren't enough opportunities to have us return. That being said, when at Jay Peak I talk to many of the employees and I am surprised how many are not locals and are transplants from out of state that wanted to change the pace of life. Where are the locals?