Recommendations for a Learner? (long)

[severine]

(ETA: This is an old thread from Feb 2004 that I bumped in case it might be useful to any newbies coming on before this upcoming ski season....


Hi! Nobody here really knows me, I'm pretty new to the forum. I'm also pretty new to skiing. This is my first season and I've gone skiing 7 times now since New Year's Day. The last time out, I intended to start blues and actually ended up skiing all the blue trails at Mohawk without much (emotional) discomfort despite the change in terrain. Prior to skiing at Mohawk, most of my time was spent at Ski Sundown in New Hartford. Neither of these are imposing mountains by any means, but good places to learn. Anyway, I took 2 lessons so far. The first was on the first day I ever skiied as a never-ever, which set up the fundamentals. You know, wedge turns, holding hands out in front of you where you can see them, etc. After that class, I skiied a couple times and then took the 2nd class. By that one, the instructor said I was progressing quickly and we started working on parallel turns, keeping the head & torso facing downhill, and working on picking up speed (I am a bit afraid of going too fast). After that class, I figured I needed some more practice first as the things I needed to work on couldn't be taught: namely confidence and comfort.
In any case, I'm now at the point where I think it would be a good idea to take another class. I've been doing pretty well with my parallel turns, although I still revert to wedge turns when I'm going very slow (like moving over to the top of a trail to get a better look of what's below when no speed has been built up yet). I've also gotten better at being comfortable with going a bit faster--I've experienced first hand what the instructor taught, that the skis work better when you're going a bit faster, and am working on being more comfortable with that. I also have bought my own boots and skis since the last lesson, so I'm using better equipment, which has also helped immensely.
What I wanted to know is what should I be focusing on at this point? I know I will be asked what I want to work on, but most of what I have a problem with will only go away with more experience (that is, gaining confidence when skiing on crowded slopes and when going fast). But I should take another lesson before I pick up any bad habits that will be harder to iron out later. What do you recommend?
I must add that I am by no means an athletic person, and have never had any athletic ability. I don't ever expect to become an expert and am fine with that--I just want to be able to have fun and ski as well as my ability will allow me to. Well?

 

[skijay]

By all means I am not a teacher. I have discovered while teaching one of my friends to ski that his biggest problem was other people. He was fine while he was on the practice area, but as soon as a few people came in his sight he freaked out. It was like everything he learned was gone. Fear took over.

As long as there was nobody within 50 feet he was ok. He could not overcome the fear so he does not ski anymore. He was more concerned (obsessed) with being hit.

From reading your post I would suggest taking the knowledge you have and go skiing and get more comfortable with others on the trail. Once you feel more comfortable take some more lessons.

When I switched from skis to snowblades I too had some major fears. My biggest fear was the fact that snowblades do not have a traditional quick release binding and I already have a ski related injury to my knee. I just put them on did a practice slope and I have been on snowblades now for 4 seasons! I am on my third pair of blades.

 

[teachski]

First of all, if you haven't been out on your own equipment yet, don't jump right on one of the harder trails for you. Go back to the greens and take a few runs on them to get used to the skis. Skiing on a new ski, with edges, particularly compared to the rentals, will feel a little different at first, particularly if they are longer than those you had for lessons. It may not hurt to take another lesson on your new skis!

Another thing to keep in mind, use the 30-50-20 principle. This means that you spend 30% of your skiing time on the stuff that is too easy for you and practice technique, 50 % of your time on terrain that is in your comfort zone and 20% of your time expanding your zone.

If you haven't already done so, you should consider purchasing a helmet. This is particularly important as you expand the level of the terrain you are skiing on. Here in New England conditions tend to vary significantly from day to day. The slope that you skied yesterday that had packed powder on it may now have more of an ice like coat. This can also happen as the day progresses and powder gets pushed off. I've found that slopes with the higher snowboard traffic (particularly when they are novices) tend to get skied off first. Sorry boarders, but it's true...newer boarders tend to do a lot of side slipping, particularly on the steeper stuff. While having a helmet will not prevent injury, it does significantly reduce the severity of injuries. It's worth the investment.

Have Fun! Welcome to Skiing and welcome to the board!

 

[RISkier]

Seems you're doing the right things. I can relate, my wife and I started skiing only last year -- I'm 50 and while I might think I'm an athletic stud, my wife is quick to remind me it's only in my dreams. As you ski more your comfort will increase. I absolutely agree with Skierteach's advice regarding terrain. You'll improve your technique faster by skiing on terrain in your comfort zone. Learning to ski easy terrain as fast as you can (or at least as fast as you're comfortable, will help you much more than struggling to get down terrain that's over your head. That said, you do also need to expand the terrain, but slowly and incrementally. It seemed we get on a run that was steeper than what we'd skied before and we'd defensively get down it. Next time it didn't seem so steep, then all of a sudden it's in your comfort zone. I think lessons are good on a lot of fronts. Not only can the instructor improve your technique, but I think they're fun. And if you're at an area with which you're not familiar, the lesson becomes something of a guide to the mountain. We sometimes signed up for group lessons on Sunday afternoons and it was usually just the two of us. Welcome to the great sport of skiing, enjoy. Also, if you get a good lesson, tip the instructor, they are paid very poorly.

 

[severine]

At least it sounds like I'm doing some things correctly...
In response to teachski, I've been out on my new skis 3 times now, and with a nice 5 day weekend coming up this weekend, I'm planning on skiing again Thursday, Friday, and Sunday. It was a huge difference from the rental equipment--for the better. It didn't take long to get used to boots that actually fit and respond and skis that are more responsive, too. After a few hours, it was like I had been using that equipment all along.
I also purchased a helmet last weekend and started using that. After reading a lot of horror stories online, and having several near misses with people overtaking me a little too closely when trails were crowded, I decided it would be a good idea. I was full of excuses why not to get one at first, but now that I'm off the "bunny slopes," I'm happy I have one.
I'll have to try the rule you posted. Usually, I warm up on the runs that I'm familiar with (and therefore more comfortable on) for about 1/4-1/3 of the time I'm skiing. Last time, I was a bit ambitious, partly because the slopes were so crowd-free that I had a completely different attitude than I normally do. On a crowded day, I probably wouldn't have taken on so much new territory. I did find, however, that I sort of had to shut down part of my brain, otherwise I was too fearful to try the new, steeper trails. Afterwards, if I thought about it too much, I would scare myself right out of doing them again. I suppose that's just something that has to be worked on with practice and more experience.
Thanks! Anything else I need to remember?

 

[ChileMass]

Severine -

I've never been an instructor, either, but here's my 2 cents: If you feel more confidence by taking the lessons and you can afford more, by all means keep doing it. Your stories seem to revolve around the info you picked up in your lessons, so I'm guessing you'll progress faster by taking some more lessons than by trying to figure things out on your own. (Figuring things out on your own on skis generally involves a lot of falling down). And speaking of falling down - try to keep that in perspective. For the most part, even if you are going "faster" now than when you started, you still won't be going THAT fast yet, and if you have a good helmet, you shuoldn't have much trouble with most falls. Stay off the double diamonds with the 6-foot moguls, and you should be just fine. Freaking out over the possibility of wiping out is what keeps many people from ever trying the sport and from making progress when they do try it. Realize that falling down is part of skiing, and learn to fall and slide on your butt. When I was a kid (a million years ago) the very first thing the instructors taught us was how to fall down, not get hurt, and get yourself back up on your skis again. Try to learn from falls, gain some perspective (you didn't die or break anything), and keep at it. Before long, you will learn to worry less about falling and enjoy the scenery more.........have fun!!!!

 

[Greg]

What a great thread! Sev - welcome to the wonderful world of skiing (and this board ). I can only speak from experience as I've never taught, nor have I ever taken a lesson. The thing that intrigued me most about skiing early on actually was the "fear", or more specifically the overcoming of it. Once I felt in control and able to stop at will, I was constantly pushing myself to try harder and steeper terrain. There was no other feeling like looking down what was perceived as a really steep run, skiing it successfully, and then looking back up at it afterward, and thinking to myself, "I just skied that?". I started skiing at 20 so my fear factor was a bit higher than it would have been if I had started at age 5. It also helps to ski with others that can provide some advice, provided they are not too pushy to get you on terrain you're not ready for.

After being out 7 times, you're probably getting pretty comfortable just being on skis and gaining speed. How are you making out with stopping? Not wedge stops, but being able to "turn" to a stop? For me, I was able to turn to the right and stop confidently pretty early on. Stopping to the right seemed to feel natural, but stopping to the left felt very uncomfortable. It was reflected in my skiing as I would take nice right parallel turns, then short left turns, and the back to wide, strong right turns. I can imagine that I looked a little choppy skiing that way. One thing that really helped was to force myself to stop by turning to the left (my uncomfortable side) every time I needed to stop while out one day. I did this for a few outings until the left stop felt as comfortable as the right. It also improved my left turns a lot.

Anyway, again, I've never taken a lesson in my life so these are things that worked for me. Hope this helps and it's good getting "to know you"!

 

[skican]

I have been skiing many years now. Took a bad tumble mid year last year and noticed that I was regressing in my skiing abilities. Fear, the F word can and will cause you to hold back. I took a lesson and what a difference it made. Soo...lessons, lessons and lessons. The helmut is also a great idea. I should take my own advice. Have fun and stay safe!

 

[teachski]

While lessons and a helmet do not prevent accidents from happening it is a good idea to have both. Even after skiing as long as I have, I still take the ocassional lesson. It's important to keep you focused and keep the bad habits away. I'm glad to see that you have both taken lessons and have a helmet.

I'd have to agree with others that fear can keep you from progressing. I have a fear that keeps me from moving further, it is a fear of bumps. If I get on them I can handle them alright, but I am afraid of them. I am afraid that I will get hurt. When you are the only income that is a scary proposition. I never was expoese to bumps until I had been skiing a long time, most of the places I skied for my first 20 years or so were well groomed and free of bumps.

 

[SAB]

As far as what to work on - you need to work on edge control. It is unfortunate that we focus on teaching the wedge so much to beginners, because at the next level, instructors spend a great deal of time and effort getting skiers away from using the wedge. The wedge is certainly something you need to know, but the quicker you can get away from using it with any regularity, the better.

So edge control - sking is all about edge control and forward/backward weighting of your ski. For edge control, it is all about learning to ride on the outside edge of your inside ski while turning. This is directly counter to the wedge where you ride the inside edge of both your skis at all times. For the forward/backward weighting, it is all about the use of your forefoot, your shin (against your boot), and your knees to get weight onto your ski tips so you can initiate the turn.

Now, having said this is what you should be working on, there is no way I can give you any advice on how to do that without watching you ski. At your stage in 'skiing development', the biggest achievement is to advance without ingraining any bad habits. (the usual culprits are poor hand position, not getting your weight forward enough on the skis, and not bending your knees enough). So by all means, I think you should continue the lessons. Even if the instructor does not give you info that moves you to the next level, at least they will be able to catch (and hopefully correct) any bad habits you are starting. Also, as you move up in ability, there will be a time that you find group lessons frustrating because you spend a lot of time watching some joker in your class who vastly over-estimated their abilities. At that point, I would encourage you to consider a private lesson. It is amazing how much you can learn in 1 hour with customized 1-on-1 instruction.

Finally, for beginners, spending as much time as you can stand on easier slopes is good for your technique. Too many skiers try to move up the difficulty scale too quickly. They can ski the harder trails safely - but in the process of doing it, they start to develop all those bad habits. Stay on easier terrain a lot so you can ingrain 'perfect' form. Ever notice that many of the best racers, the racers on the US team, learned to ski at little rinky-dink ski areas with a couple of hundred feet of vertical?

Good luck
SAB

 

[RISkier]

SAB,

I'm a relative novice so giving technical advice about skiing is not something I'm about to do, but did you really mean "the outside edge of your inside ski?"

I've pretty much been taught to ski on the inside edge of my outside ski (inside edge of right ski if turning left) on groomed runs. Most weight is on the outside ski. Tipping the inside ski can be used to steer (tip the inside ski and the outside ski will follow), and you are on the outside edge, but there is very little weight on it. I know, in power weight is more evenly distributed. I golf and I read stuff all the time on "tips" -- but you gotta have a pro who actually sees what the heck you're doing. That's why I advocate real lessons.

 

[teachski]

I think SAB meant the action of a wedge. That gets you on the inside edge of both skis.

This past weekend I had a man in a lesson that had a real tough time doing a wedge. He was a very strong, athletic man. When he tipped his skis to the inside edge to do a wedge, each one started to turn toward the inside. I abandoned the wedge and went right to a parallel turn with a J-turn to stop and slow. He was a hockey player so at one point during the lesson, without thinking, he stopped as if he were on his hockey skates. What a great lesson we had. At the end of the lesson, just so he would have it in his "bag-o-tricks" we went back to the wedge.... He finally got it.

 

[severine]

The 2nd instructor I had (which was a lucky group lesson in that I was the only one signed up, so I got a private lesson for the price of a group lesson) did a pretty good job of sharing the little secrets to help out newbies. Like if you keep your shins against the tongue of your boot, you know you're in a forward stance...as long as you keep your shins there, you should be fine. He also shared the trick of picking up the pinky toe on the uphill foot when turning to help you roll your ankles properly and make a better parallel turn. As long as I don't think too much about it while I'm doing it, this seems to be working well.
I didn't have many problems with parallel turning & keeping the knees bent from the start because I used to waterski for many years. In fact, it was more difficult for me to grasp the wedge at first--my legs had a mind of their own and wanted to ski parallel immediately. The stance you keep on waterskis is somewhat similar to downhill skiing, although you lean back on water skis, otherwise you run the risk of sinking the tips and faceplanting. You also turn in similar ways (at least, with redistributing your weight to help you steer), so that also has helped me transition pretty well from wedge turns to parallel turns. A lot of it has been second nature.
I know this was mentioned further up... I have found that I have one side that I turn to much more easily than the other. This may be due in part to multiple sprains to one of my ankles which has loosened up the ligaments and made it weaker than the other one, despite physical therapy. I also can "hockey stop" in one direction much better than the other. I am working on this... My instructor did tell me that it's normal for people to favor one side over the other. I just need to keep practicing.
I am not in any way downplaying the importance of lessons. I do intend to take lessons from time to time to further my progression... I know they are an invaluable tool. However, since I am not made of money and much of what I need to focus on right now would be better dealt with in practice/experience than lessons, in retrospect, it may be wise to wait until I've skiied a couple more times before I take my next lesson.
My husband and I are doing a ski-and-stay trip next month for Sugarbush and Mad River Glen. Yes, I know both (but especially MRG) offer challenging terrain. I don't expect to ski anything other than the easiest of greens on those mountains. But I was planning on taking a lesson or two while up there, figuring the quality of instructor may also be a little bit better than the instructors around here. Don't get me wrong; my 2nd instructor was fabulous and had many years' experience teaching. But the first was much younger than I am (and I'm only 26!), and I think it was only his first year teaching given the reminders other instructors were giving him at the start of our class. It was an adequate class, but not of the same caliber as my second lesson.

 

[oldhippie]

Welcome!

Welcome to the board and welcome to the wonderful world of skiing! Congrats on having the intestinal fortitude to start when you are above the age of 12!

My advice would be to remember, you have the reest of your life to get better, so don't get discouraged if you aren't Jean Claude Killy tomorrow! (he was an olympic skier before you were born..LOL! I am old).. instead, this year, work on relaxing, easy breathing and nice flexing from ankles and knees (and keeping the weight forward) ...controling where you are going and being able to stop or change direction quickly if you need to..

in other words, basic comfort and control on your skis. Relaxed, and in control. Have a lot of fun and don't worry about picking up bad habits.. you'll get the same ones everyone gets! leaning back and being too upright over your skis.. don't worry about it too much this year. Have fun and just become "one" with your skis.

Again, welcome!! you don't need to be an expert to join in here, so please keep giving us updates!

 

[Joshua]

Find a ski partner who is better than you who will force you to become better. That is how I learned, and quickly at that.

I like that 30-50-20 thing...but start to change the ratios as you get better.

I got over my fear by crashing (unintentionally) shoulder first into a lift pole and not even getting a bruise. I figured well, it can't get much worse than that, so never really looked back.

I do not recommend crashing into anything besides soft powder. Just stay relaxed, in control, and have fun. If you got the natual ability, the rest will fall into place.

 

[Greg]

...because I used to waterski for many years. In fact, it was more difficult for me to grasp the wedge at first--my legs had a mind of their own and wanted to ski parallel immediately.

I had waterskied (albeit only a few times) before I snow skied as well. I think the "fins" (not sure of the proper term) at the bottom of the skis keep them straight while moving. The independent, lateral sliding motion of snow skis at first was weird to me.

I know this was mentioned further up... I have found that I have one side that I turn to much more easily than the other. This may be due in part to multiple sprains to one of my ankles which has loosened up the ligaments and made it weaker than the other one, despite physical therapy. I also can "hockey stop" in one direction much better than the other. I am working on this... My instructor did tell me that it's normal for people to favor one side over the other. I just need to keep practicing.

Try my sugesstion above, i.e. force yourself to "hockey stop" to your uncomfortable side for an entire day or two. It will become more natural after a while.

My husband and I are doing a ski-and-stay trip next month for Sugarbush and Mad River Glen. Yes, I know both (but especially MRG) offer challenging terrain. I don't expect to ski anything other than the easiest of greens on those mountains.

I think I remember you now from the Epic boards. You had the question about staying up at Cannon initially, right? Glad you found us! You should get some detailed regional info about the local areas here. Have you looked at the and stay packages on this site?

http://lodging.alpinezone.com/northeast_ski_and_stay_packages.htm

The "Ski the Valley" package may be of particular interest to you if you're consider the MRG/Sugarbush area:

http://lodging.alpinezone.com/ski_the_valley.htm

 

[RISkier]

I water skied a bit back in my misplace youth. Even tried barefooting once -- talk about a faceplant -- buckles from my vest were implanted in my chest. :lol:

 

[severine]

I had waterskied (albeit only a few times) before I snow skied as well. I think the "fins" (not sure of the proper term) at the bottom of the skis keep them straight while moving. The independent, lateral sliding motion of snow skis at first was weird to me.

Yeah, I'm still getting used to that aspect of downhill skiing. And now that I have more responsive boots, I've noticed that things I used to do while using rentals (like wiggling my toes sometimes while skiing) are NOT a good idea to do anymore. Waterskiing and downhill skiing certainly aren't the same sport by any means, but the keeping the knees bent aspect, as well as shifting weight for steering, has helped transition me into downhill skiing a little better.

my sugesstion above, i.e. force yourself to "hockey stop" to your uncomfortable side for an entire day or two. It will become more natural after a while.

I'll have to remember that this weekend.

I think I remember you now from the Epic boards. You had the question about staying up at Cannon initially, right? Glad you found us! You should get some detailed regional info about the local areas here. Have you looked at the and stay packages on this site?
The "Ski the Valley" package may be of particular interest to you if you're consider the MRG/Sugarbush area

That was me! We ended up reserving a "Ski the Valley" package at Sugar Lodge. Never been in that neck of the woods before, but from what I could see on their website they seemed like a decent place. The price was pretty good, too (although not as good as the ski & stay that I first considered at the Woodstock Inn with lift tickets to Cannon--can't be $53/person when it includes a hearty breakfast like the one at the Clement Room Grille and lunch at the ski lodge, plus dinner on the last night of the stay if you make it 3 days). My husband has been sort of pushing me to advance so we can better enjoy MRG and Sugarbush, but I'm in no rush. As long as I can ski some greens on both, I'll be happy.

 

[Greg]

My husband has been sort of pushing me to advance...

And when is he gonna start posting here? :wink:

 

[severine]

My husband has been sort of pushing me to advance...

And when is he gonna start posting here? :wink:

He's a man of few words....usually al lurker in forums. But I've given him the link to your forum, so I'm sure he'll be here, if perhaps only in spirit.