Saddleback - Replacing Rangeley Double - Fixed Grip or High Speed?

[salsgang]

Saddleback announced in a press release they they are going to be replacing the Rangeley double with a Quad in 2010. They are seeking feedback on whether to replace it with a fixed grip or high speed.

For those with an opinion on the subject, you can fill out a survey form on their web site or chime in on the discussion board on the Saddleback Facebook page.

Good for them for actively soliciting feedback from the skiing public.

 

[Highway Star]

Holy proposed chairlifts batman........

 

[thetrailboss]

They have ambitious plans. The buzz is good. Looks like it may take off. I wish them the best! Great to hear.

 

[drjeff]

All the power to the new owners there and their plans. Let's hope that things come together and they can have the reality match the ambition

 

[Angus]

received an email from them yesterday touting they'd bought a boat slip/marina on rangeley and restating the $4mm of on-mountain real estate transactions this year. good for them.

 

[deadheadskier]

They probably won't need the capacity that HSQ offers for several years, but if they ever reach their skier visit goals they might need it. I would think adding a HSQ would have to mean a significant increase in lift ticket prices. If their prices go much over $50, they risk losing business to Sugarloaf or Sunday River with what the mountain currently lacks in off hill amenities. I's suggest a triple chair to help keep ticket costs down and then eventually move that lift to another area of the mountain they want to develop

 

[TheBEast]

Wow, hadn't ever looked at the trail map at Saddleback. Looks like they've got some great expert terrain......gotta check them out at some point. Are all the blacks natural or do they have some manmade over there?

 

[salsgang]

Wow, hadn't ever looked at the trail map at Saddleback. Looks like they've got some great expert terrain......gotta check them out at some point. Are all the blacks natural or do they have some manmade over there?

Supervisor, Tight Line and Warden's worry have snowmaking. Even with the dry March they have 200+ inches of natural reported this year. The glades are outstanding on that part of the Mountain.

 

[kcyanks1]

They probably won't need the capacity that HSQ offers for several years

HSQ and fixed-grip quads have the same capacity. HSQ moves faster but the chairs are spaced out more. The issue is one of how quickly the lift moves. I'm not familiar with Saddleback, so I don't know how long the ride would be on that lift. My sense is that if it used to be a T-bar, a fixed grip will do the trick.

 

[deadheadskier]

HSQ and fixed-grip quads have the same capacity. HSQ moves faster but the chairs are spaced out more. The issue is one of how quickly the lift moves. I'm not familiar with Saddleback, so I don't know how long the ride would be on that lift. My sense is that if it used to be a T-bar, a fixed grip will do the trick.

The lift is right about 5000 feet in length, but to my knowledge was never a T Bar. I believe they've had the same double in that location since 1962.

I always thought the max capacity of a fixed lift Quad was in the neighborhood of 2400 where as certain HSQ can get upwards of 3000 people up the hill.

 

[kcyanks1]

The lift is right about 5000 feet in length, but to my knowledge was never a T Bar. I believe they've had the same double in that location since 1962.

Oops, sorry. I didn't read the original post carefully enough. I thought this thread was about replacing the Tbar which they are doing next year, I believe. My fault.

I always thought the max capacity of a fixed lift Quad was in the neighborhood of 2400 where as certain HSQ can get upwards of 3000 people up the hill.

I'm really repeating what I've heard here from, I think (please correct me if I'm wrong), BMM and Tin Woodman, but I thought both fixed grips and HSQs were around 2400. Maybe it's possible that theoretically HSQs can be run fast enough to have a higher capacity, but they generally aren't.

 

[Telemechanic]

A fixed grip quad's maximum uphill capacity is about 2400 pph, a detachable quad, 2800 pph. A fully built fixed grip quad will have about 45ft chair spacing and a maximum line speed of 450 fpm. A detachable quad fully built will have chair spacing around 85ft and typically runs at 1000 fpm (there are faster detachables but their spacing is greater than 100 ft).

Considering the length of the Rangely Double I'd go with a detachable for a shorter ride but I'd certainly opt for a much lower capacity than 2800pph or even 2400pph. I don't think a typical days crowd at Saddleback justifies the highest capacity and detachable grips and quad chairs are expensive so they could save a lot of money. They can always add chairs in the future if their daily skier visits go up.

 

[threecy]

Unless things have changed, a new FGQ and a new fixed grip triple run the same price (due to the latter not being part of standard production anymore).

In regard to capacity, while the gross capacities of a FGQ and HSQ are similar, the net capacity of a FGQ is higher, because HSQs keep less skiers in the air for a shorter duration, thus allowing them to return to the line faster (and thus ski off trails faster).

 

[xlr8r]

Both fixed quads and detachable quads unload people at the same interval. Therefore they have the same capacity. However a fixed quad holds twice as many people on the line at once because the chair spacing is halfas long. Therefore there are twice as many chairs on the line of a fixed quad. Because people unload each at the same interval, the amount of skiers on the trails is the same for both fixed and detachable quads. The difference is made up in the lift line.

For example if there are 1000 skiers on a mtn with a fixed quad, that holds 600 people on the line at once and nobody in the liftline, there are 400 people on the trails. If the lift is a detachable quad, there would now only be 300 people on the lift at once, and there would still be 400 people on the trails. But now there will be 300 people waiting in the lift line.

Theoretically the time to get up the mtn is the same for both when you combine the time waiting in line and on the lift. Say the fixed quad takes 10 minutes to ride. The detachable will then have a 5 minute lift line, and a 5 minute ride time, combined to equal 10 minutes.

So if both lifts run at full capacity, there is really no difference in capacity or ride time. A detachable quad is only faster when there is no lift line or when the line is really short. This would be under max capacity for the equivalent fixed quad.

For a mtn like Saddleback that does not have big crowds, a detachable would be good because there probably won't be enough people to make a long lift line.

Hope this explains things.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Loading/unloading interval is variable.


Theoretical capacity is a mathematical function of chair spacing, max carrier occupancy, and line speed. Those numbers give you your loading interval and your capacity. 4 place CLD vs 4 place CL is irrelevant. However, when pushed to the max, a CLD is able to accommodate a higher capacity much more comfortably than a fixed grip, which would incite some serious loading issues (very short loading interval).

C = (P X V X 60) / S where C = capacity per hour, P = people per carrier, V = line speed (fpm), and S = chair spacing.

I = (P X 3600) / C where I = loading interval in seconds


Actual capacity also factors demand and efficiency, and is substantially less than theoretical capacity in most instances.

 

[loafer89]

How about do nothing and leave the double chair as it is. It's been around for the last 20 years I have been skiing there and half the time the chair is deserted when we are there.

 

[jerseyrob]

How about do nothing and leave the double chair as it is. It's been around for the last 20 years I have been skiing there and half the time the chair is deserted when we are there.

I agree but that thing is on it's last leg. I was opposed to the Kennebego Quad too but I gotta admit.......it's a pretty cushy ride to the top now although a tad bit more crowded.......

 

[eatskisleep]

Replace it with a double...

 

[salsgang]

For a mtn like Saddleback that does not have big crowds, a detachable would be good because there probably won't be enough people to make a long lift line.

This is changing. My Feb and March trip have been very busy. Pretty long lines for Saddleback standards (10 min wait). Times are-a-changing.

 

[riverc0il]

Replace it with a double...

Couldn't disagree more. That lift is Saddleback's main mover. A quad is definitely needed, especially as Saddleback begins to attract more skier visits. If Saddleback ever would put in a High Speed lift, this is the place to do it. I wouldn't be opposed to a High Speed lift replacing the existing double. This is really an ideal location as ever has been for a high speed lift.