Should Bretton Woods get its own Killingtonesque thread?

[FridayHiker]

Yeah, I know that not a lot of people on this board ski there, but there must be a few, no? For many folks who live in northern NH, it's their home every Sunday afternoon, when BW has historically sold cheap ($12) half-day tickets for Grafton/Coos/Carroll residents. Their season passes used to be semi-affordable too, at least for people who also X-country ski, since they included use of the X-country center, too.

I guess the new management who took over last year is now showing their true colors, as kids' passes have gone from $399 up to $559 (vs. $210 at Cannon), and adult passes have gone from $499 to $749. The BW/Cannon midweek combo pass is still affordable, but midweek doesn't do much good for families with kids.

The new owners stopped letting non-guests through the Mt. Washington Hotel gates back in May; sadly, that was a harbinger of the exclusivity to come (witness the new exclusive "Alpine Club" tent/building they're putting up at the base for condo owners who pay the membership fee). $69 for a lift ticket seems rather excessive for the amount of terrain, too.

I wonder if they'll keep doing the Sunday Special, or if locals are just to lowly to deal with anymore. It's really disappointing to watch. I truly miss the days that it was locally owned and operated.

 

[bobbutts]

they shortened the season too

 

[wa-loaf]

I've never been and don't know much about BW, but it seems there can be only so much room for exclusive resorts. It's sad they need to run out the locals. Probably good for Cannon though.

 

[FridayHiker]

It's sad they need to run out the locals. Probably good for Cannon though.

I sure hope so, but with new management trying to call it "Cannon Resort", it doesn't sound promising. From a revenue standpoint, I think Cannon will do much better to keep its ticket prices affordable (resident kid passes at $210 are a great deal, but non-resident passes at $630 are too expensive imho) than to try to market itself as a "resort" with high prices. Personally, I'd hate to see Cannon privately operated, especially since a Bretton Woods employee I was speaking with last year told me that CNL (the new BW owners) wanted to be the operators if they went that route, and I think that Cannon could do well marketing itself as an affordable place for families to ski. There's getting to be a huge void in that up here.

 

[ctenidae]

We skied BW once, and really liked it- they had great snow last year at a time when others really didn't. It's within day trip range, so that's a plus, but if it gets to be too expensive, it will fall off the list. Will probably ski it once or twice this year, though, just to see.

I don't have as much of a problem with BW going all exclusive and such- it's really just more of the same for them, nothing too unexpected. On that scale, I don't relate them to K at all. Killington's made a 180 degree switch, and that sucks for their regulars. BW's regulars probably like the changes.

 

[snoseek]

understand that they are spending a lot of money on the place. have you chacked out the hotel lately? I personally think there plans will only take them so far, as the terrain limits them.

 

[thetrailboss]

Yeah, I know that not a lot of people on this board ski there, but there must be a few, no? For many folks who live in northern NH, it's their home every Sunday afternoon, when BW has historically sold cheap ($12) half-day tickets for northern NH residents for local residents. Their season passes used to be semi-affordable too, at least for people who also X-country ski, since they included use of the X-country center, too.

I guess the new management who took over last year is now showing their true colors, as kids' passes have gone up to $559 (vs. $210 at Cannon), and adult passes have gone from $499 to $749. The BW/Cannon midweek combo pass is still affordable, but midweek doesn't do much good for families with kids.

The new owners stopped letting non-guests through the Mt. Washington Hotel gates back in May; sadly, that was a harbinger of the exclusivity to come (witness the new exclusive "Alpine Club" tent/building they're putting up at the base for condo owners who pay the membership fee). $69 for a lift ticket seems rather excessive for the amount of terrain, too.

I wonder if they'll keep doing the Sunday Special, or if locals are just to lowly to deal with anymore. It's really disappointing to watch. I truly miss the days that it was locally owned and operated.

To be honest, I saw this gentrification start with the previous ownership. It is no surprise given that their largely "ego terrain" appeals to the upper segment of the market. They cut out some deals to locals in 2000-2001 or so...and then reinstated them again...only partially. The truth is that the their definition of "family resort" changed from an affordable resort to an "upscale" resort. The average Joe used to ski there a lot...but the average Joe doesn't spend as much money and skis on coupons, etc. So they poured some money into it and catered to the folks who could bank roll the work, that being the higher rollers....

 

[FridayHiker]

understand that they are spending a lot of money on the place. have you chacked out the hotel lately? I personally think there plans will only take them so far, as the terrain limits them.

The hotel got hit badly by an April wind storm, and they walked away with an insurance check for over $2million, thus all of the work on the hotel.

Yes, the terrain severely limits them, and I don't think they realize the extent of that. My own belief is that in the long run, they're shooting themselves in the foot. There's quite a negative buzz about them locally, and though it won't hurt their captive audience clientele, it will surely hurt in terms of locals recommending Cannon over BW, which they are already doing. One friend of ours who comes up from Mass to ski quite a bit (and is in the demographic they're targeting) says they won't go back because their ski school has gone downhill so much in the past few years. Um, no pun intended.

 

[ann in ma]

We skiied BW for the last couple of years because of their "free ski" policy on the beginner hills and the interchangeable adult lift ticket. With one kid just getting her skiis under her, and another tearing up the blues, it worked out great for us. We'd only have to buy one adult ticket and one junior. One parent would ski with the tot in the free area, and the other would go off on the blues with kid #2. Then we'd switch kids.

Now of course, both kids are going to need lift tickets, which means that we'll need 2 adult tickets besides, so BW is probably off our list -- if we're going to drive that far, we'll go to Wildcat.

 

[thetrailboss]

And they gave Bode the boot too or did he just decide to leave on his own?

Probably cut him...I thought he was a traitor for jumping the Cannon ship for BW. But you have to go to where the $$$ is....

 

[threecy]

You can't expect a place like Bretton Woods to basically give away skiing, whether it be in via cheap season passes, cheap Sunday deals, or cheap local deals.

If you want relatlive inexpensive skiing, there are places nearby such as Black or King Pine.

You get what you pay for. I'm not saying Black or King Pine are subpar by any means, but they don't offer the facilities that BW has.

Personally, I think BW is somewhat small and doesn't have terrain that captures my interest.

 

[FridayHiker]

If you want relatlive inexpensive skiing, there are places nearby such as Black or King Pine.

"Nearby" is relative. I know that lots of people here drive a few hours to ski, but for me, besides special road trips with the kids, I don't like to drive much more than a half hour or so. There's lots of skiing within that range, but not Black or King Pine.

You get what you pay for. I'm not saying Black or King Pine are subpar by any means, but they don't offer the facilities that BW has.

See that's what I don't really get. I don't see BW's facilities as being at all special, unless you're referring to the hotel. What am I missing?

 

[snoseek]

Probably cut him...I thought he was a traitor for jumping the Cannon ship for BW. But you have to go to where the $$$ is....

yeah wtf. learns to ski at cannon and the loaf, then takes money from b.w.. i bet he never skis there except for the end of the year bodefest.

 

[snoseek]

Do you think Attitash will pick up more of the locals now too and not just Cannon?

I hope both cannon and attitash get some action.

 

[FridayHiker]

We skiied BW for the last couple of years because of their "free ski" policy on the beginner hills and the interchangeable adult lift ticket.

Cannon doesn't do the interchangeable ticket (they should consider it, though; it's really a great idea), but they did make the Brookside (beginner) chair free last year. They didn't publicize it very well, though.

 

[riverc0il]

understand that they are spending a lot of money on the place. have you chacked out the hotel lately? I personally think there plans will only take them so far, as the terrain limits them.

I think Bretton's terrain works well for the new direction. The average skier does not need excessively difficult terrain. Bretton caters to the average skier terrain wise because the average skier can easily and handily ski black diamonds and glades at Bretton. Will really good skiers ski at Bretton? Never seemed worth the money to me as Bretton remains one of only two +1000 vert mountains in NH that I have not skied.

I agree with a previous poster that this is just more of the same. I have always viewed Bretton as too expensive. Certainly they were never in the ultra-expensive upper tier resort category, which is perhaps their intended direction. But they certainly were never an inexpensive option for the family. Perhaps for locals but Cannon and Wildcat have always been the cheaper local option depending upon which side of Crawford notch you live on.

 

[riverc0il]

And come April those folks are done skiing for the season ... thus the early closing now.

Wasn't skiing into May only a recent thing? I only recall Bretton being an early/late season contender for the last few years. I may just be forgetting and have bad memory, so please correct me if I am incorrect.

 

[riverc0il]

yeah wtf. learns to ski at cannon and the loaf, then takes money from b.w.. i bet he never skis there except for the end of the year bodefest.

I bet he rarely skis in New England except for Bodefest. WTF? Now people must be obligated to support the mountain they learned and developed at? I doubt Cannon offered Bode any cash and I don't expect Pro Bono from any one... though Bode DOES have a charity that is supported by Bodefest...

 

[snoseek]

I bet he rarely skis in New England except for Bodefest. WTF? Now people must be obligated to support the mountain they learned and developed at? I doubt Cannon offered Bode any cash and I don't expect Pro Bono from any one... though Bode DOES have a charity that is supported by Bodefest...

your right, but to me it is incredibly comical. i would take the money too.

seperate note-I can see how bretton woods would be real anxious to get a hold of cannon, as they are fairly close and offered together, cannon would be the perfect balance.

 

[riverc0il]

It certainly is ironic, what with Bretton Woods being so much the opposite of the skier's and racer's mountain that Cannon is.

Regarding Bretton ownership being interested in leasing Cannon, it does make perfect sense. The two mountains already share the Bold & Beautiful mid-week pass which is a sensational slice of marketing and salesmanship. The two mountains complement each other very well. Also, with Cannon's development of the Tuckerbrook beginner area and with Cannon's excellent ski school, Cannon is able to give Bretton a run for the money on finally being a great place for beginners to learn, which had not been the case previously. So a lease arrangement would take out the competition, especially considering a growing price difference between the two mountains.