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Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

drjeff

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Who's going to be more screwed this year, Jay Peak or Cannon?

Jay... Unless the border opens for regular back and forth travel from their substantial greater Montreal area population base that thye draw from, they're in a much tougher situation for drawing guests to the area to possible try it out than Cannon is. Heck, the already large drawing Loon isn't even 10 minutes down the highway from Cannon.

Much easier to get a potential new customer to a place that is very close to where they may be used to going than getting them to a place where it is much further away from where they may be used to going to, plus NH, as of now, seems to have a rules on lodging that are more open than VT does
 

nhskier1969

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Jay... Unless the border opens for regular back and forth travel from their substantial greater Montreal area population base that thye draw from, they're in a much tougher situation for drawing guests to the area to possible try it out than Cannon is. Heck, the already large drawing Loon isn't even 10 minutes down the highway from Cannon.

Much easier to get a potential new customer to a place that is very close to where they may be used to going than getting them to a place where it is much further away from where they may be used to going to, plus NH, as of now, seems to have a rules on lodging that are more open than VT does

I was thinking more of the Tram Situation.
I feel Jay could really be hurt with limited to no tram this year. Plus Vermont seems to be more strict than NH.
 

dlague

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I was thinking more of the Tram Situation.
I feel Jay could really be hurt with limited to no tram this year. Plus Vermont seems to be more strict than NH.

90% of the people that go up on the tram go down Vermonter or around towards the flyer terminal. Those that like face chutes, green beret and Valhalla and the likes can still find trees elsewhere off Flyer or Jet so the tram is not a total loss.


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thebigo

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Who's going to be more screwed this year, Jay Peak or Cannon?

Other than first car or the novelty of racing a tram, I rarely rode the tram when I had a cannon pass. I have no facts to back this up but I would bet the tram itself generates more revenue in the summer than winter.
 

p_levert

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If you own a place in VT, you can probably get away with it as enforcement seems to be on hotels/rental agencies. If you don't own and want to spend a night(s) and are from a bad county, that will likely prove difficult.

As an aside, ME has not and doesn not sound like it will be waivering from the restrictions on MA and RI residents with regards to a negative test inside 72 hours or 14 day quarantine anytime soon.

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For *now*, enforcement is all based on lodging. However, if I use my Ikon pass at Killington, the resort certainly knows where I live. So the possibility is there to enforce quarantine restrictions on dayskiers. Not so much if you pay cash, but that would be a bad workaround for someone with an Ikon pass.
 

cdskier

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For *now*, enforcement is all based on lodging. However, if I use my Ikon pass at Killington, the resort certainly knows where I live. So the possibility is there to enforce quarantine restrictions on dayskiers. Not so much if you pay cash, but that would be a bad workaround for someone with an Ikon pass.

Your home address on your season pass has virtually no relevance to whether you quarantined though. You could have a second home in VT (as I do and Ikon would have no knowledge of this). You could be staying with friends/family in VT. You could have a seasonal rental. You could have quarantined for 14 days at home and drove directly to the resort. Sure the resorts can say "we see your home address requires a quarantine. Did you follow the requirements?" If you say yes, then that's going to be the end of it. No one is going to further try to double-check what you say. Ideally people answer truthfully, but I really see nothing to stop or enforce someone from not doing so.
 

p_levert

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Your home address on your season pass has virtually no relevance to whether you quarantined though. You could have a second home in VT (as I do and Ikon would have no knowledge of this). You could be staying with friends/family in VT. You could have a seasonal rental. You could have quarantined for 14 days at home and drove directly to the resort. Sure the resorts can say "we see your home address requires a quarantine. Did you follow the requirements?" If you say yes, then that's going to be the end of it. No one is going to further try to double-check what you say. Ideally people answer truthfully, but I really see nothing to stop or enforce someone from not doing so.

Generally true, but this is all about burden of proof. State of VT could direct ski resorts to block all persons with an out-of-state home address, unless they can demonstrate otherwise (show a local lease, water bill, quarantine certificate, etc.). It could come down like this.
 

billo

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For *now*, enforcement is all based on lodging. However, if I use my Ikon pass at Killington, the resort certainly knows where I live. So the possibility is there to enforce quarantine restrictions on dayskiers. Not so much if you pay cash, but that would be a bad workaround for someone with an Ikon pass.

So change where you live. Honestly, that's not going to happen with enforcement. "Have you been in VT for 14 days....Yes!"
 

mister moose

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So the possibility is there to enforce quarantine restrictions on dayskiers. Not so much if you pay cash, ...

There isn't going to be much cash accepted, most announcements I've seen have already gone cashless, on line advance purchase only. That way they have zero touch. They also get contact tracing and advance attendance numbers.

Generally true, but this is all about burden of proof. State of VT could direct ski resorts to block all persons with an out-of-state home address, unless they can demonstrate otherwise (show a local lease, water bill, quarantine certificate, etc.). It could come down like this.

Resorts are not going to be interested in either being a trial court or a quarantine enforcement agency. They aren't going to make a determination when your lease is in your roommate's name, or if you typed it up that morning, or the 100 other variations. You're going to sign a declaration, and if you knowingly lie and cause harm, ie infection, the liability comes back to you. The resort may set policies they enforce, such as masks required, or spacing required, occupancy limits, temperature scans, and those will be for everyone.
 

BenedictGomez

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I think there are certain loopholes in HIPPA that a state might be able to argue in the interest of public health safety.

Agreed. Never seen it done, but it's gotta be in there I'd think. That said, I'm not sure who at the Rutland Motel 6 is going to be checking for your COVID19 testing documentation. LOL

Who's going to be more screwed this year, Jay Peak or Cannon?

Jay Peak for all the Canuck reasons Dr. Jeff mentioned. As for the tram, resorts seem to be completely ignoring the science in a bid to run their gondolas, and a tram is far larger than a gondola. So I imagine they'll find some sort of BS rationale to tell you they can run it safely.

State of VT could direct ski resorts to block all persons with an out-of-state home address, unless they can demonstrate otherwise (show a local lease, water bill, quarantine certificate, etc.). It could come down like this.

There is 0% chance it could come down like this. I really dont think you've thought the mechanics of what you're suggesting through, the time involved, and/or the manpower required. Or the potential likely legal ramifications.
 

cdskier

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Jay Peak for all the Canuck reasons Dr. Jeff mentioned. As for the tram, resorts seem to be completely ignoring the science in a bid to run their gondolas, and a tram is far larger than a gondola. So I imagine they'll find some sort of BS rationale to tell you they can run it safely.
Jay has already announced they're running the Tram in the fall for scenic rides. They have a lengthy description of what to expect and how they're "keeping you safe" on their website. If they're running it in the fall, I wouldn't be surprised either to see it run at least somewhat in the winter.

There is 0% chance it could come down like this. I really dont think you've thought the mechanics of what you're suggesting through, the time involved, and/or the manpower required. Or the potential likely legal ramifications.

100% agree...
 

thebigo

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Jay has already announced they're running the Tram in the fall for scenic rides. They have a lengthy description of what to expect and how they're "keeping you safe" on their website. If they're running it in the fall, I wouldn't be surprised either to see it run at least somewhat in the winter.



100% agree...

Per state park website, cannon tram will not run in the fall. I suspect it will not run in the winter.
 

slatham

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There is 0% chance it could come down like this. I really dont think you've thought the mechanics of what you're suggesting through, the time involved, and/or the manpower required. Or the potential likely legal ramifications.

Not to mention VT doesn’t want to completely decimate it’s economy. There’s been talk and implied comments about easing restriction. College experience will be key - and thus far in VT (fingers crossed) it’s been a success with the lowest positivity rate in the country. From yesterday’s press conference “ If the college data continues to look good, the governor also says we can expect to see another turn of the spigot as soon as next week that would target the hospitality sector so the state can bring in tourism revenue from foliage season.”

Let’s hope nothing derails this progress.
 

p_levert

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Not to mention VT doesn’t want to completely decimate it’s economy. There’s been talk and implied comments about easing restriction. College experience will be key - and thus far in VT (fingers crossed) it’s been a success with the lowest positivity rate in the country. From yesterday’s press conference “ If the college data continues to look good, the governor also says we can expect to see another turn of the spigot as soon as next week that would target the hospitality sector so the state can bring in tourism revenue from foliage season.”

Let’s hope nothing derails this progress.

For sure, if VT decides to put quarantine restrictions on dayskiers, it would decimate the economy. The ski areas would hate it and many would simply shut down. But if a state can shut down all ski areas due to Covid, they also have the capability to restrict ski area usage to in-state skiers. I just don't have a lot of confidence the state of VT will take a balanced, common sense approach to ski area operation.
 

VTKilarney

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Judging by the sheer number of out of state license plates I saw heading north on Friday, Vermont is not enforcing its own rules. It’s the honor system and nothing more.
 

billo

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Not to mention VT doesn’t want to completely decimate it’s economy. There’s been talk and implied comments about easing restriction. College experience will be key - and thus far in VT (fingers crossed) it’s been a success with the lowest positivity rate in the country. From yesterday’s press conference “ If the college data continues to look good, the governor also says we can expect to see another turn of the spigot as soon as next week that would target the hospitality sector so the state can bring in tourism revenue from foliage season.”

Let’s hope nothing derails this progress.

What planet are you on? Vermont has shown no interest in their economy over stopping 100% of covid deaths. Not one death is acceptable to Vermont and if that means destroying their economy they are all in.
 

oompaloompa

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poorly written but generally correct. zero deaths from covid is the goal regardless of the effect on our economy. you can blame the orange shitstain for this whole mess and the financial pain we here will endure for years to come. that said, am seeing great progress in reducing infection rates in the regions from which vt draws it's skiers/riders compared to my posts on 8/22 and 8/23. some "yellow" areas are now "blue" ( no travel restrictions at all) and many "red" are now "yellow". am hoping for more progress to come, it just depends on the behavior of others.

https://accd.vermont.gov/covid-19/restart/cross-state-travel
 

1dog

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poorly written but generally correct. zero deaths from covid is the goal regardless of the effect on our economy. you can blame the orange shitstain for this whole mess and the financial pain we here will endure for years to come. that said, am seeing great progress in reducing infection rates in the regions from which vt draws it's skiers/riders compared to my posts on 8/22 and 8/23. some "yellow" areas are now "blue" ( no travel restrictions at all) and many "red" are now "yellow". am hoping for more progress to come, it just depends on the behavior of others.

https://accd.vermont.gov/covid-19/restart/cross-state-travel

VT could also have zero deaths on roads with enforced 5 MPH speed limits, zero deaths from fentanyl by shutting borders down.

Who removes r i s k? Used to be people choosing for themselves . . .

'there is nothing a government can give you tht it hasn't taken from you in the first place.'

Winston Churchill
 

dlague

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Jay Peak for all the Canuck reasons Dr. Jeff mentioned. As for the tram, resorts seem to be completely ignoring the science in a bid to run their gondolas, and a tram is far larger than a gondola. So I imagine they'll find some sort of BS rationale to tell you they can run it safely.

Has either Jay Peak or Cannon been running the tram this summer? I think both ski areas could operate with out the tram. Especially Cannon since you access with a tiny bit of effort to the whole mountain without it!

Answered my question Jay peak is operating the tram for fall foliage tours!


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