Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

[ss20]

I don't think resorts can actively go after people who appear in different states. VT wants Joe Smith's name to go to their database if he skis in VT. If Joe Smith had been skiing at Windham three days earlier I don't think the resorts have to report that info.

Also I question the effectiveness of contact tracing if there are almost certainly millions of active, asymptomatic cases circulating around the country right now.

 

[Zermatt]

Its looking good this winter if you can WFH in VT and/or if your kids have remote school. You only have to quarantine once if you stay up there. the only thing you have to worry about is everyone else ignoring the orders, cases spiking, and VT shutting down the lifts.

And anyway, I thought the prevailing view on AZ was 'VT can't keep me from Skiing weekends! I own a condo! taxation without representation!' or something.

I hope Biden wins so they can release the secret vaccine already. :dunce:

The ski areas can't even open if they expect 100% compliance and only VT based skiers. Not even close.

 

[ss20]

And anyway, I thought the prevailing view on AZ was 'VT can't keep me from Skiing weekends! I own a condo! taxation without representation!' or something.

That's only half of AZ. The other half has returned their season passes, stocked up on skins and AT supplies, and isn't planning on riding a ski lift til at least 2025.

 

[ss20]

The ski areas can't even open if they expect 100% compliance and only VT based skiers. Not even close.

No. And they know it, and, IMO, are sort of encouraging people to break quarantine requirements.

Killington has been extremely blunt....from the snow report..."The state of Vermont is currently restricting who can travel into the state and visit our resort as part of its Covid-19 response plan. Click the link below to visit the State of Vermont website to determine if you are eligible to travel to Vermont. Given the nature of the requirements, we are unable to verify if visitors to the resort meet the requirements but we urge you to do the right thing and not travel to Vermont and our resort if you don’t meet the requirements for the health and safety of our staff, community and fellow visitors."

 

[mtl1076]

yes I agree with you BG. That's how I read it. so honestly that should be pretty easy. If you have a pass or bought a ticket online, they have your info.

no big deal...

Ski areas have to keep a list of who visited each day, both passholders and ticket holders.

 

[NYDB]

The ski areas can't even open if they expect 100% compliance and only VT based skiers. Not even close.

I think there are a lot of people who did or will move up there and remain for the duration. Maybe not enough, but a lot

A lot of former NJ/NY/MA/CT residents have new properties all over VT. The summer was super busy. I expect the winter to be the same.

I expect midweek crowds to be much higher than normal.

 

[kbroderick]

Also, anyplace outside that map area is also not allowed.

Is the state of Vermont aware of the constitutional right to unrestricted interstate travel? Where are all the f-ing lawyers when you need them?

The right to travel, like most rights, is not absolute. Try riding a motorcycle from New Hampshire through to Jersey without a helmet or riding a horse on I-91 from Vermont into New Hampshire and see how that goes. Plus, the Vermont guidelines do not prohibit anyone from going to (or from) Vermont, but instead regulate a person's behavior in Vermont.

There may well be constitutional concerns with the Vermont (and New York and Maine and whichever other) travel/activity restrictions, particularly insofar as they may interfere with other constitutionally protected activities (such as practicing religion or organizing voters), but restriction on behavior associated with interstate travel is commonplace.

 

[Zermatt]

I think there are a lot of people who did or will move up there and remain for the duration. Maybe not enough, but a lot

A lot of former NJ/NY/MA/CT residents have new properties all over VT. The summer was super busy. I expect the winter to be the same.

I expect midweek crowds to be much higher than normal.

Not even close to moving the needle.

The ski areas are reliant on 100% non-compliance with these rules.

 

[nhskier1969]

And the miniscule amount of dishonesty that might be occurring is an absolute nothing burger in the grand scheme of things regarding number of deaths. I'm sure it has happened, but no where near the levels that some people in media are trying to convince you to believe. These opinions are put out there for political purposes.

Hospitals throughout time have experienced massive fines for medicare and medicaid fraud. We are talking 9 figure penalties in some instances. Where are those cases now? Where are the whistle blowers?

I'm sure you could find a few legitimate ones, but not enough that would have a meaningful impact on the numbers. I hope those who have done such things are brought to justice. If they are in considerable numbers, I'll stand down on my opinions.



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Whats the difference between hospital taking advantage of the system and Busineses who shouldn't have qualified for the PPP but they got it anyway. IE Harvard getting 30 million dollars
Both are taking advantage of the situation.

 

[spiderpig]

I think there are a lot of people who did or will move up there and remain for the duration. Maybe not enough, but a lot

A lot of former NJ/NY/MA/CT residents have new properties all over VT. The summer was super busy. I expect the winter to be the same.

I expect midweek crowds to be much higher than normal.

or people were just breaking the quarantine rules then, too

 

[abc]

Wow - in the entire northeast including Ohio, West Virginia and Virginia, there are only 331,252 people eligible to visit Vermont without quarantine... Not looking good for this winter.

Not looking good for whom?

Doesn't look good for skiers outside of VT. Not looking good for the ski area.

But if you live in VT, you can ski on an empty mountain. I'd say that may look very good!

 

[abc]

That's only half of AZ. The other half has returned their season passes, stocked up on skins and AT supplies, and isn't planning on riding a ski lift til at least 2025.

LOL!

Guilty as charged. Was looking at skins and xc skis just yesterday.

But I had always been interested in bc touring. I put tele binding on one of my cast-off alpine skis, but never actually took it off to the BC (nor yet fitted with skins even) And I had also took a clinic on skate skiing (xc) just last year. So this isn't a new thing for me. It just added a lot of fuel to my slowly simmering interest in skiing not involving lifts.

 

[EPB]

..taxation without representation!' or something.

This, of course, is factually true. No need to think further. Not that I have any personal sympathy for people who can't vote in the place of their second residence. It seems to be totally reasonable policy to me.

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[skiur]

Not looking good for whom?

Doesn't look good for skiers outside of VT. Not looking good for the ski area.

But if you live in VT, you can ski on an empty mountain. I'd say that may look very good!

You really think that if they dont have out of state skiers showing up that resorts are going to blow any snow, or run any lifts? They would lose less money by closing.

 

[EPB]

You really think that if they dont have out of state skiers showing up that resorts are going to blow any snow, or run any lifts? They would lose less money by closing.

Without insider info, it's impossible to know what the answer to the "to run, or not to run" question is. That said, I'd caution anyone cheering on quarantines that limit out of state visitors to be careful what they wish for both in terms of 2020/2021 operating budgets and increasing the likelihood that not all the VT ski areas make it though the season alive.

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[spiderpig]

Without insider info, it's impossible to know what the answer to the "to run, or not to run" question is. That said, I'd caution anyone cheering on quarantines that limit out of state visitors to be careful what they wish for both in terms of 2020/2021 operating budgets and increasing the likelihood that not all the VT ski areas make it though the season alive.

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$timulu$

 

[cdskier]

You really think that if they dont have out of state skiers showing up that resorts are going to blow any snow, or run any lifts? They would lose less money by closing.

Exactly...

The only way the mountains are empty is if travel restrictions are actually somehow enforced. And in that case they'll just end up closing as you said because it just isn't feasible to run most of your major mountains with local only traffic. If travel restrictions are not enforced, there's virtually no chance the mountains are empty.

 

[ss20]

Without insider info, it's impossible to know what the answer to the "to run, or not to run" question is. That said, I'd caution anyone cheering on quarantines that limit out of state visitors to be careful what they wish for both in terms of 2020/2021 operating budgets and increasing the likelihood that not all the VT ski areas make it though the season alive.

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It wouldn't make sense for a resort to not open. How many employees wouldn't return the next season? How many season passholders would never return? And you'd still be paying taxes on the land, and have buildings depreciate. You're better off running a season in the red. If there's anything positive about this industry, it's that these ski resorts can weather the storm and are used to having an occasional unprofitable season. Most bounce back.

For a small ski area for a season I can see it making some sense- less equipment and buildings to mothball for future use. But a big resort with 15+ lifts, multiple resort-owned lodges, hotels, and condos, dozens and dozens of pieces of heavy machinery like groomers and shuttle busses, the investment of having a few key staff members preparing/keeping things mothballed probably would not be worth it for just one season.

 

[EPB]

It wouldn't make sense for a resort to not open. How many employees wouldn't return the next season? How many season passholders would never return? And you'd still be paying taxes on the land, and have buildings depreciate. You're better off running a season in the red. If there's anything positive about this industry, it's that these ski resorts can weather the storm and are used to having an occasional unprofitable season. Most bounce back.

For a small ski area for a season I can see it making some sense- less equipment and buildings to mothball for future use. But a big resort with 15+ lifts, multiple resort-owned lodges, hotels, and condos, dozens and dozens of pieces of heavy machinery like groomers and shuttle busses, the investment of having a few key staff members preparing/keeping things mothballed probably would not be worth it for just one season.

Yeah I think we're basically in agreement. No chance a Vail resort doesn't open knowing what we know today, for example. Smaller ones are a different story. I think quite a bit of the clientele would give smaller places a pass this year, but maybe I'm too forgiving.

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[abc]

You really think that if they dont have out of state skiers showing up that resorts are going to blow any snow, or run any lifts? They would lose less money by closing.

You just put in the final nail on the coffin of my season pass purchase plan!

With all the lodges restricted and restaurants take-out only, life lines snaking half way up the hill... NOT TO MENTION the potential of Covid risk, why would I want to go to a life-served mountain except in the hope it'll be half empty???