Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

[deadheadskier]

And the miniscule amount of dishonesty that might be occurring is an absolute nothing burger in the grand scheme of things regarding number of deaths. I'm sure it has happened, but no where near the levels that some people in media are trying to convince you to believe. These opinions are put out there for political purposes.

Hospitals throughout time have experienced massive fines for medicare and medicaid fraud. We are talking 9 figure penalties in some instances. Where are those cases now? Where are the whistle blowers?

I'm sure you could find a few legitimate ones, but not enough that would have a meaningful impact on the numbers. I hope those who have done such things are brought to justice. If they are in considerable numbers, I'll stand down on my opinions.



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[BenedictGomez]

And the miniscule amount of dishonesty that might be occurring is an absolute nothing burger in the grand scheme of things regarding number of deaths. I'm sure it has happened, but no where near the levels that some people in media are trying to convince you to believe. These opinions are put out there for political purposes.

Hospitals throughout time have experienced massive fines for medicare and medicaid fraud. We are talking 9 figure penalties in some instances. Where are those cases now? Where are the whistle blowers?

I'm sure you could find a few legitimate ones, but not enough that would have a meaningful impact on the numbers. I hope those who have done such things are brought to justice. If they are in considerable numbers, I'll stand down on my opinions.

What you're not understanding is that it wouldn't be fraud. It's a simple ICD coding for an actual COVID19 positive patient. You're just doing a really, really, really, really, really good job looking for COVID19 cases. Test as many people as you can. I agree that this is likely overblown like you're saying, but I also think it's naive to think there aren't hospital admins out there thinking $$$ for every COVID19 patient, especially with all the asymptomatic patients out there. There are hospitals which are literally testing every single patient who's admitted. Is that really necessary if they have no COVID19 symptoms or are admitted for a broken leg? I guess reasonable people can debate that & say it's the most conservative path to take, but the cynical side of me knows hospital admin brass aren't dumb & do anything legal in their power to maximize revenue.

 

[deadheadskier]

There are hospitals which are literally testing every single patient who's admitted. Is that really necessary if they have no COVID19 symptoms or are admitted for a broken leg? .

Evidence that all patients are being tested?

Mine is only anecdotal, but I spend a ton of time in EDs and that is not normal from my experience. Most have devoted about ten percent of their beds in EDs as potential Covid patient beds. Those all get tested. The rest? No unless the patient demands it.

As for the broken leg folks? Yes, they and most all patients in need of surgery do so. It's a precaution to keep the Anesthesiologists (especially) , the Surgeons and support staff from unknowingly being exposed.

Hell my neighbor just tested positive prior to surgery. His family has to quarantine for two weeks. My kids had recently played with their daughter outdoors one day prior to that test. We all got tested too because our daughter is in daycare and it's the responsible thing to do to prevent potential spread. That's the daycares policy and one I agree with.





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[BenedictGomez]

Evidence that all patients are being tested?

It's not uncommon. John's Hopkins is the first place that popped into my mind. Took a 20 second Google search.

"Anyone admitted as an inpatient will receive a COVID-19 test."

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/cor... and visitors entering,don't already have one.

 

[icecoast1]

Evidence that all patients are being tested?

Mine is only anecdotal, but I spend a ton of time in EDs and that is not normal from my experience. Most have devoted about ten percent of their beds in EDs as potential Covid patient beds. Those all get tested. The rest? No unless the patient demands it.

As for the broken leg folks? Yes, they and most all patients in need of surgery do so. It's a precaution to keep the Anesthesiologists (especially) , the Surgeons and support staff from unknowingly being exposed.

Hell my neighbor just tested positive prior to surgery. His family has to quarantine for two weeks. My kids had recently played with their daughter outdoors one day prior to that test. We all got tested too because our daughter is in daycare and it's the responsible thing to do to prevent potential spread. That's the daycares policy and one I agree with.





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They arent even letting people in for routine procedures like a colonoscopy here in NY without a negative covid test first, let alone any kind of major surgery

 

[deadheadskier]

It's not uncommon. John's Hopkins is the first place that popped into my mind. Took a 20 second Google search.

"Anyone admitted as an inpatient will receive a COVID-19 test."

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/cor... and visitors entering,don't already have one.

Misinterpreted your claim to include ED admissions not just inpatient admissions. A very small percentage of ED patients end up getting admitted to MedSurg or ICU.

I don't see a problem with all patients who are admitted to critical care floors receiving a test. Best to keep those folks in negative pressure rooms.

I don't see massive testing as a problem in general. Infection counts aren't a major metric I look at today, but were quite important in the spring. Hospitalization rates and deaths are most important today in terms of how things are being managed. Trends for both aren't great currently. The death rate is very low and improving which is a good thing, but it's still a helluva lot of people in total.

I also feel a big reason why there hasn't been far more deaths is due to early lockdown measures. It allowed for learning such that the therapies became more accurate and effective. If there was no lockdown this spring and other major metros got hit like NYC? We'd probably be looking at a seven figure death count.

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[spiderpig]

"1. Skiers will have to attest to compliance with the state's travel guidance. 2. Ski areas will collect contact tracing info for every guest on the mountain every day."

So if you ski at Wildcat one day and Stowe the next, Vail is gonna sic the covid police on you?

https://twitter.com/JaneLindholm/status/1323660292857995267

 

[abc]

There are hospitals which are literally testing every single patient who's admitted. Is that really necessary if they have no COVID19 symptoms or are admitted for a broken leg? I guess reasonable people can debate that & say it's the most conservative path to take, but the cynical side of me knows hospital admin brass aren't dumb & do anything legal in their power to maximize revenue.

Define "reasonable".

When someone was admitted for a broken leg (which BTW usually doesn't require hospital stay) is an asymptomatic carrier, he can infect the doctors and nurses, which will turn around infect all the other patients they see. And unless that patient is in a private room, he can also infect the other patient staying in the same room too!

With testing, anyone who's positive will be put into a different room for Covid positive patients only. They're not mixing with other patients who tested negative.

Which is reasonable? Not knowing and mixing covid -positive patient with all the rest?

 

[BenedictGomez]

"1. Skiers will have to attest to compliance with the state's travel guidance. 2. Ski areas will collect contact tracing info for every guest on the mountain every day."

So if you ski at Wildcat one day and Stowe the next, Vail is gonna sic the covid police on you?

I feel like that has to be written incorrectly somehow.

Let's say there are 2,500 skiers at the hill on a given Saturday, Vermont cant actually expect Killington or Jay Peak to create compressive contact tracing lists for 2,500 people every day, right?

If so, my advice would be for the ski resorts to join together in a single lawsuit rather than each suing together. lol

 

[spiderpig]

I feel like that has to be written incorrectly somehow.

Let's say there are 2,500 skiers at the hill on a given Saturday, Vermont cant actually expect Killington or Jay Peak to create compressive contact tracing lists for 2,500 people every day, right?

If so, my advice would be for the ski resorts to join together in a single lawsuit rather than each suing together. lol

Don't they have all the info they need from the reservation systems or ticket scans? But what good is contact tracing if you're not tracking who is in the lodge at the same time? Magic has the jump on table reservations there.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Don't they have all the info they need from the reservation systems or ticket scans? But what good is contact tracing if you're not tracking who is in the lodge at the same time? Magic has the jump on table reservations there.

Well, not everyone has an RFID system or a reservation system, but ignoring that, I think the tweet must be wrongly written. It just sounds wacky.

EDIT: The reporter clarified it, it really is State of Vermont's intention.

Q) Are you saying if XYZ Vermont ski resort has 3,000 skiers on a Friday, they need to create a comprehensive contact tracing list for all 3,000 skiers?

A) Yes.

 

[spiderpig]

Well, not everyone has an RFID system or a reservation system, but ignoring that, I think the tweet must be wrongly written. It just sounds wacky.

Straight from the horse's mouth: "Ski areas are going to be collecting and maintaining contact tracing information for every guest that's on the mountain every day to be able to give that information to the Department of Health in the event of a contact tracing need."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijs0qHg18g0

 

[BenedictGomez]

Straight from the horse's mouth: "Ski areas are going to be collecting and maintaining contact tracing information for every guest that's on the mountain every day to be able to give that information to the Department of Health in the event of a contact tracing need."

I figured it out. They just misused the term "contact tracing", all the ski area needs to do is have the contact info for each skier, not literally create a preemptive spider web of each skier's recent contacts.

 

[jimmywilson69]

yes I agree with you BG. That's how I read it. so honestly that should be pretty easy. If you have a pass or bought a ticket online, they have your info.

no big deal...

 

[flakeydog]

What you're not understanding is that it wouldn't be fraud. It's a simple ICD coding for an actual COVID19 positive patient. You're just doing a really, really, really, really, really good job looking for COVID19 cases. Test as many people as you can. I agree that this is likely overblown like you're saying, but I also think it's naive to think there aren't hospital admins out there thinking $$$ for every COVID19 patient, especially with all the asymptomatic patients out there. There are hospitals which are literally testing every single patient who's admitted. Is that really necessary if they have no COVID19 symptoms or are admitted for a broken leg? I guess reasonable people can debate that & say it's the most conservative path to take, but the cynical side of me knows hospital admin brass aren't dumb & do anything legal in their power to maximize revenue.

Two things-

first off, yes, patients should be tested prior to being admitted. Perhaps I am naïve to think this is for the safety of the staff and patients to stop the spread of a contagious virus in a contained environment. I am sure the experts here will continue to weigh in that it is not. Colleges are also testing "everyone", or at least some are. They are doing it at great expense to themselves. Why? because the up front cost to do this is worth the investment- it costs a lot more to send everyone home mid-semester.

Second, this conspiratorial increase in testing probably will not produce the results those bent on nefarious syphoning of government resources are hoping for. As the testing rate (as a function of the total population) increases, the expectation is that the positivity rate would decrease. All of that "unnecessary" testing is not going to pay off like you thought.

However, if the positivity rate increases or even stays flat as a greater percentage of the population is tested, it usually suggests that there is still community spread at or above the level of the group that required testing. I would submit that this is something we would want to know if we were interested in controlling and reducing the spread of the virus.

 

[spiderpig]

I figured it out. They just misused the term "contact tracing", all the ski area needs to do is have the contact info for each skier, not literally create a preemptive spider web of each skier's recent contacts.

I thought that was the only way it could be read.

 

[mbedle]

Wow - in the entire northeast including Ohio, West Virginia and Virginia, there are only 331,252 people eligible to visit Vermont without quarantine... Not looking good for this winter.

 

[mbedle]

And almost all of them live in rural Maine...

 

[Zermatt]

Wow - in the entire northeast including Ohio, West Virginia and Virginia, there are only 331,252 people eligible to visit Vermont without quarantine... Not looking good for this winter.

Also, anyplace outside that map area is also not allowed.

Is the state of Vermont aware of the constitutional right to unrestricted interstate travel? Where are all the f-ing lawyers when you need them?

 

[NYDB]

Its looking good this winter if you can WFH in VT and/or if your kids have remote school. You only have to quarantine once if you stay up there. the only thing you have to worry about is everyone else ignoring the orders, cases spiking, and VT shutting down the lifts.

And anyway, I thought the prevailing view on AZ was 'VT can't keep me from Skiing weekends! I own a condo! taxation without representation!' or something.

I hope Biden wins so they can release the secret vaccine already. :dunce: