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Skiing the moguls

jaytrem

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Good stuff, 2 weeks til Squaw!!! Hope they have a few bumps left for me.

After seeing Patrol pulling one after another out of the trees last weekend..I'm not so sure...

That's odd, where was that? I think in all my years of tree skiing I saw an injury once, and it was relatively minor.
 

Whitey

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I'm with those who said that once they started not just zipper lining every mogul field and added skiing the tops of moguls too that it really helped with their mogul skiing. I learned to ski moguls in my early 20s as a ski bum out west. I would say that's just about the best way to do it. But obviously that's not an option here. Back in those days it was all zipper lining and huge extension and retraction. But now I don't think that's really the best way. I'll add that I don't think the troughs and tops thing is an either/or situation, it's more like both.

I was actually contemplating this over a beer after skiing not long ago. One thought that came to me was that rockered skis, for me, have really made a difference in my ability to ski bump tops. I find that with rockered I am more willing and able to point those skis at the side of a bump and assume/expect that the tips will absorb the impact, flex, and then allow me to ride up and onto the top of that bump. Before rockered skis if I tried that on some of those same bumps I probably would have stabbed the tips into the side of those bumps, double ejected, and tomahawked down the slope.

I linked below a Gopro video I shot a couple of years ago at Cannon on a corn harvest spring day. If you can get to the bumps on a soft spring snow day - that can really help when you want to work on your technique. The wet snow naturally slows you down and helps with the impacts. I'm not the greatest bump skier but the video may help for 2 reasons. 1 - it's a POV look at skiing bumps. 2 - It shows the "troughs and tops" combo. If you watch at the beginning of the run I am mostly skiing troughs. That's because they are in good shape and well spaced. But you'll notice that after I stop & catch my breath and get going again - I start skiing mostly the tops. That's because on the lower section of the trail the troughs become a bit sketchier and the sides of the moguls are harsher. So when I hit that I transtioned to the tops of the bumps and finished the run mostly on top of the bumps. Usually it doesn't work out that way and it's more of a mixed bag throughout a bump run. So the key is to recognize when the troughs aren't set up well or are beat up, transition to the tops, and then if the troughs get good again you can drop back into a zipper line. Or mix the two together throughout the run. Either works.

Cannon mogul ski vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0LU5UDb1bk&feature=youtu.be
 

Siliconebobsquarepants

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To the point of the original post (I think), the zipper line isn't the only way to ski moguls. Love what Marcus Caston did in his Return of the Turn series bringing back a 1970's hot dog style of skiing - on what...98 width Blizzard Bodacious? Love it!


Nice 2:00-2:14 for me is the most fun I have on skis , launch and land downside of the bump .Just don’t misjudge your landings.
 

jack97

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IMO,there are two ways to ski moguls, a direct line or non a non direct line. Neither one implies staying in the troughs. In cases where the bumps are not seeded, knowing how to approach or ski at the various parts of the bumps is key. Look at how Martin skied the bumps back in the day. And yes, the bumps had different shapes back then but they still had non symmetrical formations. Martin would ski in the trough but he also went to the high side and on the top. And he throws the extra turn or use that hesitation move to line up the approach for the upcoming bump. All this while keeping a rhythm to his decent down the fall line. The challenge is applying those same tactics to present day bump shape and formations.

 

jack97

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Along with using those same tactics back then, we can leverage the shape of present day mogul skis. IMO, its another tool that can be used, YMMV.

 

jaytrem

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Cool Chuck Martin video, thanks for posting. I remember seeing him throw a 180-daffy-180 in the old Bud Light Mogul Tour. Back then it was highly impressive.

As for learning to ski all types bumps. The best way is to straight line it from point A to point B as fast as possible. Don't worry about what's in your way, sure you'll take a beating, but eventually you'll just figure it out. Ideally this should be done before graduating high school, or it may result in a hospital visit. Also skiing the bumps at their worst (crusty/icy) makes skiing nice ones a lot easier.
 

kingslug

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Well im out in the fields all day today..had to get the Big Bazookas..the 85s just dug in the mush...moguls everywhere..just slow going in them towards the bottom.20190329_112641.jpg20190329_112546.jpg
 
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CS2-6

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Excellent book for those interested in learning from a coach

This is interesting. Being TX-based, I'm always interested in reading material to improve my game and maximize my quality time on the snow.

DiPiro's book really resonated with me, how closely does The Invincible Mogul Skier track with Everything the Instructors Never...? Not that I'm concerned that the information would be redundant, but I'd be more inclined to pick up Mead's book if it teaches a similar style (I'm assuming it does).
 

Ol Dirty Noodle

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Having self taught myself the bulk of my specialized skills and knowing how I learn, the way I basically taught myself to ski better was watching people that looked like they knew what they were doing from the lift and then tried analyzing why they were doing what they were before starting a run, and then try to ski the same line the same way.
Helped immensely and I applied the same logic to moguls and glades, ride lifts with views of the run, find a good skier to watch and then emulate the same technique on my run. Some things worked for me, some didn’t but I never got in over my head that way but I also respected my limits. For example I would never watch a few people drop Corbett’s and think ok I’ll just do that... well maybe...
 

Teleskier

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So..how do ski moguls? This weekend with the Big Bazookas, and out west I find I can just flash through them 6 at a time rather than hitting each one. Very economical, not as tiring for sure.

Just read this thread now... Odds are this wasn't you, or maybe from the above it was a trial...

There was this guy on this past Sunday, coming down Lift-Line at Stowe, who appeared to be straight GS'ing all the moguls by skimming over the tops of them, at tremendous high speed. Being thrown all over the place in barely controlled 'out of control'.

The other locals and I on the chair never seen anything like it.

He also had a buddy behind him who was trying to ski moguls more 'normally', but was obviously pushing himself "too fast" to try to keep up at that insane "race over the bump tops" rate.

Is that the "flash over them" style you mean? Was that you by any chance? (Probably not). Wished I had the phone out to take a video. It was crazy and impressive and crazy again, all at the same time. Felt bad for his friend though.
 

kingslug

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Nope not me..never out of control..plus i was with my wife...who would be very far behind me. Im very aware of everyone around me..my biggest fear is hitting someone..so i never let that ever become a possibility...i have seen people..including today flying down the hill so fast they would have no chance to stop...
Today was a sloooooow day..very sticky.
I did finaly get into middle Starr which was a mogul fest.
 

Teleskier

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In reading through the posts, all of the videos here seem to show 'normal' (if advanced) mogul skiing.

Whereas what the Lift-Line guy was doing, was not turning at all and just skimming over the mogul tops in a straight-down-the-hill GS race line.

If I turn on the top of a mogul and in the process some snow gets pushed into the trough, am I guilty of destroying the mogul ?

I would say no. That's how the 'mogul master' at Aspen taught me, saying this is how "you can keep skiing moguls and beating the young kids in mogul races at my age." I think he was in his upper 70's. Crazy smooth style.

But then again...

Tele turns tend to "chop off" the downhill side of the mogul, changing their shapes.

... I'm guilty of this too. But I'm just getting down the hill by doing what my skis want to do...
 

jack97

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This is interesting. Being TX-based, I'm always interested in reading material to improve my game and maximize my quality time on the snow.

DiPiro's book really resonated with me, how closely does The Invincible Mogul Skier track with Everything the Instructors Never...? Not that I'm concerned that the information would be redundant, but I'd be more inclined to pick up Mead's book if it teaches a similar style (I'm assuming it does).

I've been meaning to purchase Mead's book ever since it got on my radar a couple of weeks ago, this thread made me pull the trigger.

As for DiPiro's book, its a great book since it breaks the myths or beliefs brought forth by the ski instructor crowd. The latter cater to skiers who do not seek skiing a direct line in the moguls. I'm ok with instructors teaching non direct lines however its the misconceptions they foster that troubles me.

IMO, DiPiro's book provides the basics of moguls skiing to get one started but does not go into details of more advance techniques. Although he mentions some, the depth is lacking and I believe this was done purposely since he does believe newbies can get overloaded with too much information at the starting line. Its possible that his book is now outdated since it was published in 2005. Things are always evolving and competitive mogul skiing is no different, Dale Begg Smith blew away the field when it came to turns during the 06 Games in Torrino. That forced a lot of the competitors to ski more in the troughs or to change their strategy. I'm always game for reading anything related to mogul skiing.
 

flakeydog

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Bumps here today were everywhere. It was like skiing through glue in slow motion but bumps nonetheless

Edit: so sticky that even the upside down trails were fine
 

dlague

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So in the past, some people here posted about how they liked skiing frozen bumps. So at Vail, I opted to give them a try. I did not like frozen bumps in NE and it turns out I do not like them in CO. Yesterday was our first refreeze of the season with pretty warm temps the day before followed by a cold front, made for teeth chattering skiing. Really needed to drive the edges and it was fast.

Back to frozen bumps - only skied one run and that was interesting. So never liked scraped off bumps either but better than frozen.



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