Slow Lifts

[tjf67]

Its much easier to light a smoke.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Its much easier to light a smoke.

Pretty soon smoking will be banned at ski areas..

 

[drjeff]

Haha..yeah it's something the weekday only skier doesn't experience and one of the reasons why I ski everyday even on the busiest holiday. On a typical big weekend day. I see every ski jacket and every pair of skis I've ever owned..in the lift line. I also get questions like...

What are dem parabolics like? and Is Challenge as hard as it looks? lol

LOL! I love the "parabollics" question! Especially considering that it was 10+ years ago (February of '97) that I bought my first pair of "parabollics"

Heck, my main skis nowadays (Atomic B5 Metrons) are almost twice as wide and 1/2 the length of some of the skis that the folks asking the "parabollics" question are on! How the times have changed! Now I'm just not sure how I would feel if the neon clothing craze comes back :???:

 

[drjeff]

Pretty soon smoking will be banned at ski areas..

DEFINATLEY NOT A BAD THING IMHO!

 

[tjf67]

Pretty soon smoking will be banned at ski areas..

It is already banned on the gondolas. Does not really bother me. I try not to offend others with my smoking

As far as the other lifts banning smoking that seems a little overboard.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

DEFINATLEY NOT A BAD THING IMHO!

Most of the bars around here have gone smoke free..tobacco feens can chew..

 

[millerm277]

Pretty soon smoking will be banned at ski areas..

Won't exactly matter....people don't tend to listen, and they still smoke cigarettes and other material in the gondi cars.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Won't exactly matter....people don't tend to listen, and they still smoke cigarettes and other material in the gondi cars.

Like the Ganja-la at Stowe..

 

[SkiDork]

T-bars. Best lifts ever.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

T-bars. Best lifts ever.

Almost. But not quite. They don't beat detachable Pomas. You know... the F15s that pick you up off the ground. Love those things.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Almost. But not quite. They don't beat detachable Pomas. You know... the F15s that pick you up off the ground. Love those things.

I like the Poma next to Bunny Buster at K-mart..It would be cool to go back in time to when Okemo had top to bottom Pomas..

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Poma's are the original detachable.

The higher line speed of a detatchable only helps out durring the weekwhen the lift is porating below capacity. Very little of my favorite terrain is served by detatchables, (and I rarely ski on weekends) so I tend to end up on FG's the most.

The real problem with detatchables is that they have driven the areas capital investment and operating costs up, they really have had a negative impact on the industry. (Except for Dopplemyer and Poma-Lieghtner)

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I never knew that Detachables had a negative effect on the industry...They've had a positive effect on the vertical I ski..since 80 percent of my skiing is off of a high speed quad, six pack, or Gangala..I wouldn't have skied over 2.4 million vert last season if it wasn't for high speed lifts...

A plus to a slow lift is if you're skiing with a girlfriend/wife..you can have long makeout sessions between runs. The girl I'm dating now is a skier and I'm looking forward to riding some slow lifts with her this season..

 

[tjf67]

Poma's are the original detachable.

The higher line speed of a detatchable only helps out durring the weekwhen the lift is porating below capacity. Very little of my favorite terrain is served by detatchables, (and I rarely ski on weekends) so I tend to end up on FG's the most.

The real problem with detatchables is that they have driven the areas capital investment and operating costs up, they really have had a negative impact on the industry. (Except for Dopplemyer and Poma-Lieghtner)

Is it the cost of the lifts or the cost of snowmaking that is driving the prices up so fast.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Is it the cost of the lifts or the cost of snowmaking that is driving the prices up so fast.

Well, the bulk of costs for snowmaking are energy related. Snowmaking costs are a big part of operating costs. HS lifts hit both the capital and operating costs. On the capital side, they're nearly three times as expensive as a FG. On the operating side, they require a lot more maintainance.

I won't say that the faster line speed isn't a plus for me, as a weekday skier. I do believe that costs and higher skier density of higher capacity lifts are some significant negatives.

 

[drjeff]

Well, the bulk of costs for snowmaking are energy related. Snowmaking costs are a big part of operating costs. HS lifts hit both the capital and operating costs. On the capital side, they're nearly three times as expensive as a FG. On the operating side, they require a lot more maintainance.

I won't say that the faster line speed isn't a plus for me, as a weekday skier. I do believe that costs and higher skier density of higher capacity lifts are some significant negatives.

But from the marketing side of things, what sells more lift tickets "Come ride our brand new high speed quad" or "Come ride our new chairlift"?

The masses want the fast lifts and the masses and their day ticket buying wallets are alot more interesting to a resort than most of us season pass holders enjoyment of "old school" skiing

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Well, the bulk of costs for snowmaking are energy related. Snowmaking costs are a big part of operating costs. HS lifts hit both the capital and operating costs. On the capital side, they're nearly three times as expensive as a FG. On the operating side, they require a lot more maintainance.

I won't say that the faster line speed isn't a plus for me, as a weekday skier. I do believe that costs and higher skier density of higher capacity lifts are some significant negatives.

This is true. But there are also industry advantages. For example, the slow load/unload speed HUGELY reduces injuries related to loading/unloading. The main advantage, as has been mentioned before, is marketing. People like high speed lifts. People like getting up the mountain faster. People commonly relate fixed-grip slow lifts with old technology, and thus tend to be more comfortable on "new" detachables (if only they new the truth :wink. Most general public also believe that detachables make liftlines go faster. Even though it's not true, people think it is so they are happier skiing somewhere that has high speed detachable chairs. It's a fact of the market.

But you're right... they are more expensive to operate and maintain. They require generally 2 or three operators + ticket checkers as opposed to a top and bottom op for a fixed grip. The motors are generally more powerful and require more electricity to run. The complexity of the attaching/detaching system, the grips, and all of the added sensors and failsafes make them maintenance-intensive. The more complex and electronic they are, the more things there are to go wrong!

So they cost more, but I do not believe that they have brought much financial harm to the industry. They certainly have at some areas, but not in general, IMHO.

 

[from_the_NEK]

But from the marketing side of things, what sells more lift tickets "Come ride our brand new high speed quad" or "Come ride our new chairlift"?

The masses want the fast lifts and the masses and their day ticket buying wallets are alot more interesting to a resort than most of us season pass holders enjoyment of "old school" skiing

Burke is a good case study for this debate.
High speed detachable POMA and a slow Quad servicing the upper mtn where the best skiing is and a "brand new high speed quad" servicing the beginner area at the bottom of the mtn.
The "brand new high speed quad" seems to be bring additional folks to the mtn. There are plans to replace the slow Quad in the near future.

Operating cost are also high for detachables since (as I have heard) use a lot more electricity).

 

[BushMogulMaster]

By the way, I know I've mentioned it in other threads, but I will again here just so that there is no confusion.

A high-speed detachable quad does not have any higher uphill capacity than a fixed grip, assuming both are running at their optimal line speed. The metric for a quad is generally 2400 pph, regardless of FG vs. Detach. That's why detachable quad lift lines don't move any faster than FG quad lines. The only difference for the skier is a shorter time on-line.

 

[from_the_NEK]

By the way, I know I've mentioned it in other threads, but I will again here just so that there is no confusion.

A high-speed detachable quad does not have any higher uphill capacity than a fixed grip, assuming both are running at their optimal line speed. The metric for a quad is generally 2400 pph, regardless of FG vs. Detach. That's why detachable quad lift lines don't move any faster than FG quad lines. The only difference for the skier is a shorter time on-line.

The very slow Double that the HSQ replaced at Burke actually had almost the same capacity as the HSQ. THe double had chairs very close together and the HSQ has them a mile apart. Result = very fast ride to the unload area but a bit of a line now forms on busy days. To be fair the old double hardly ever ran a optimal line speed since it was hard for little kids to get on as the chairs whipped around the bullwheel. This led to A LOT of stopages.