Small Aircraft Crashes Into NYC High Rise Building

[JimG.]

Jim its just like how skiing is to you, it sets you free and you love it right? Well thats how he got away from it all, I like the fact he flew himself and didnt have to depend on hiring someone to fly him around, what the hell fun is that sitting on your fat ass playing cards in the back while someone else is flying you around?? I think thats an awesome hobby, just as u think skiing is.

It all has to be tempered with personal responsibility though. After my skiing accident in 1999, I realized I could have been killed and left a widow and 2 young sons (now 3 sons) behind. That scared me.

So I became a little more cautious. I bought a helmet and I wear it. I don't go into unfamiliar unmarked areas without someone who knows the area and who can guide me the first time. I always ski in a group when OB. And I ski a little more in control and a little slower. I made concessions against my wild and free personality to accomodate my family.

Lidle had a wife and child who depended on him. Flying himself may not have a small margin for error, but when mistakes happen the results are always bad. And what the hell fun is it to be burned and dismembered in a plane and wind up 6 feet under when I could have had a professional pilot fly me around?

 

[bvibert]

And what the hell fun is it to be burned and dismembered in a plane and wind up 6 feet under when I could have had a professional pilot fly me around?

Devil's advocate here: what fun is it to wind up buried alive in an avalanche or tree well when you could have ridden the lift down? Different strokes for different folks...

 

[hammer]

As a private/instrument rated pilot, I'd say that skiing/snowboarding is inherently more dangerous than flying. That said, Jim is correct in that, in flying, if mistakes happen things can go wrong in a big way.

The biggest risk that I could think of in this situation is that Lidle may have not been experienced enough to handle flying low near a bunch of buildings...but if he had an instructor on board then the instructor would/should have been there to help.

From what little I've seen, I suspect that there was some kind of mechanical problem and, for some reason, they lost control of the aircraft. If it was a simple engine failure, then it may have been pilot error (distraction) since the best course of action would have been to crash into the river.

One thing that's strange to me is that they were able to fly where they did without a flight plan...I remember flying up the Hudson many years ago in a visual flight rules corridor but I would have thought that this would not be allowed since 9/11.

I haven't flown myself in more than 12 years, but it's mainly due to time and money constraints...it's a bit expensive to fly enough hours to, IMO, be a safe pilot.

 

[JimG.]

As a private/instrument rated pilot, I'd say that skiing/snowboarding is inherently more dangerous than flying. That said, Jim is correct in that, in flying, if mistakes happen things can go wrong in a big way.

The biggest risk that I could think of in this situation is that Lidle may have not been experienced enough to handle flying low near a bunch of buildings...but if he had an instructor on board then the instructor would/should have been there to help.

From what little I've seen, I suspect that there was some kind of mechanical problem and, for some reason, they lost control of the aircraft. If it was a simple engine failure, then it may have been pilot error (distraction) since the best course of action would have been to crash into the river.

One thing that's strange to me is that they were able to fly where they did without a flight plan...I remember flying up the Hudson many years ago in a visual flight rules corridor but I would have thought that this would not be allowed since 9/11.

I haven't flown myself in more than 12 years, but it's mainly due to time and money constraints...it's a bit expensive to fly enough hours to, IMO, be a safe pilot.

This is some excellent info...thanks!

I too think it was a mechanical failure; I too wonder why they didn't try to ditch in the river; I too wonder why the flight instructor didn't take over. I add it all up and come to the conclusion that the failure was so devastating that their fate was sealed the moment the failure occurred.

So Mr. Bvibert, once you're in the air and something like this happens, you are basically dead at that moment in time. At least with an avalanche or a tree well, you have a shot at digging/getting dug out. Different animals.

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

It all has to be tempered with personal responsibility though. After my skiing accident in 1999, I realized I could have been killed and left a widow and 2 young sons (now 3 sons) behind. That scared me.

So I became a little more cautious. I bought a helmet and I wear it. I don't go into unfamiliar unmarked areas without someone who knows the area and who can guide me the first time. I always ski in a group when OB. And I ski a little more in control and a little slower. I made concessions against my wild and free personality to accomodate my family.

Lidle had a wife and child who depended on him. Flying himself may not have a small margin for error, but when mistakes happen the results are always bad. And what the hell fun is it to be burned and dismembered in a plane and wind up 6 feet under when I could have had a professional pilot fly me around?

I cant really disagree with anything you said Jim but just as Professional skiers make tragic mistakes so do professional pilots, not often but it does happen.

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

I just find it absolutely nuts that even this day in age any plane can go up and down the east and hudson rivers cruising around 1100 feet with buildings on the sides of them.. Where he went to Turn around is because at that point you are in Laguardias airspace for takeoffs and landings and you have to call their tower to continue up the River.. Im not a pilot but how the hell is only 75hrs enough flying time to get a license in the first place? I would think it would be more like 1000 hrs.. 75Hrs in a car isnt even enough so how is it ok to be flying around town with that little experience even if u have a co-pilot with you, i dont get it.. And something has to be done about these little planes that can just go cruising up and down the river sightseeing all day in helicopter traffic as well as their own, i couldnt believe they could do that til i heard it myself, thats just crazy, anyone agree with me?

 

[JimG.]

I cant really disagree with anything you said Jim but just as Professional skiers make tragic mistakes so do professional pilots, not often but it does happen.

Alot of folks are trying to compare skiing to flying.

People die doing both, no doubt about it.

My point is this...when your ski falls off or you have some kind of equipment failure, usually the worst that happens is that you get injured or you fall down. If the wing of your airplane falls off or the fuel is bad or can't be delivered to the engine, you're dead.

Different animals.

 

[JimG.]

I just find it absolutely nuts that even this day in age any plane can go up and down the east and hudson rivers cruising around 1100 feet with buildings on the sides of them.. Where he went to Turn around is because at that point you are in Laguardias airspace for takeoffs and landings and you have to call their tower to continue up the River.. Im not a pilot but how the hell is only 75hrs enough flying time to get a license in the first place? I would think it would be more like 1000 hrs.. 75Hrs in a car isnt even enough so how is it ok to be flying around town with that little experience even if u have a co-pilot with you, i dont get it.. And something has to be done about these little planes that can just go cruising up and down the river sightseeing all day in helicopter traffic as well as their own, i couldnt believe they could do that til i heard it myself, thats just crazy, anyone agree with me?

Totally agree.

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

This may sound nuts Jim but after reading about this all day, we have more laws in our own cars that we can break on a drive to work than flying a small plane it seems. And i agree with your other post, id choose injury over death any day, at least you can recover even if your never the same again.

 

[JimG.]

This is making me sick to my stomach, i remember listeninig to Wfan 2days ago when Corey called in to defend himself against mike and chris, they were very hard on him about quotes he made and such, and now this.. My stomach hurts about this whole thing, very disturbing

Today alot of people are trying to blame those two for this tragedy. That's utterly ridiculous.
They were hard on him because he said the team wasn't prepared to play and he implied it was Torre's fault. BS.

These guys are supposedly pros and they should have been prepared regardless of the manager. I don't like the blame game.

 

[hammer]

Where he went to Turn around is because at that point you are in Laguardias airspace for takeoffs and landings and you have to call their tower to continue up the River..

This is more interesting...I wonder if he flew up the river at a low speed (to check out the scenery) and when he went into a turn to stay out of LGA airspace the aircraft went into an aerodynamic stall?

Pure speculation, of course...

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

This is more interesting...I wonder if he flew up the river at a low speed (to check out the scenery) and when he went into a turn to stay out of LGA airspace the aircraft went into an aerodynamic stall?

Pure speculation, of course...

Not sure Hammer i just heard that an hour ago about being in their airspace, did u see the video from the Coast guard cam? fuzzy and foggy but interesting.. I guess he took a very wide turn they are saying, its tight quarters for a good pilot to turn around there from what i hear.. And you see how skinny those rivers are, a plane cant turn like a car so thats a risky manuever to begin with.

 

[bvibert]

So Mr. Bvibert, once you're in the air and something like this happens, you are basically dead at that moment in time. At least with an avalanche or a tree well, you have a shot at digging/getting dug out. Different animals.

My point is that you engage in a risky activity every weekend that you don't need to be doing. Sure skiing isn't quite as risky, but maybe flying is that one thing that really did it for him. So he did everything he thought he could to make his prefered risky activity as safe as possible, just like you do with skiing. I don't really see it as two different animals, definitely two different levels though.

 

[SkiDork]

yeah - I've got my theory which pretty much jibes with what a few others have said..

I posted it over on KZone:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12977

BTW - the instuctor was from California so he prolly didn't know the airspace to well.. Which adds credence to the theory

 

[hammer]

yeah - I've got my theory which pretty much jibes with what a few others have said..

I posted it over on KZone:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12977

BTW - the instuctor was from California so he prolly didn't know the airspace to well.. Which adds credence to the theory

Good writeup, your theory seems quite plausible.

I knew about the Hudson corridor but not about the East River. I'm still surprised that these are still open after 9/11.

I only flew the Hudson corridor once when I was a student pilot...had to get some night time so we flew into Teterboro. The views were fantastic...

 

[dmc]

My point is that you engage in a risky activity every weekend that you don't need to be doing. Sure skiing isn't quite as risky, but maybe flying is that one thing that really did it for him. So he did everything he thought he could to make his prefered risky activity as safe as possible, just like you do with skiing. I don't really see it as two different animals, definitely two different levels though.

I know a lot more people that have died from skiing then flying...

 

[zowi420]

So Mr. Bvibert, once you're in the air and something like this happens, you are basically dead at that moment in time.

Yikes! My husband is a pilot, of the "balsa and rubberband" variety. I am eight and a half months pregnant, and we fly all the time! I am more nervous driving on I-93 than I am in the air. I also chose not to go on any motorcycle rides this summer.
A couple of months ago, I took an all-day "emergency landing" course in Nashua. There have been many instances of mechanical failure, and things going wrong, like the pilot going unconscious, where the passenger landed the plane safely.

 

[ChileMass]

Yikes! .......I am eight and a half months pregnant......

Zowi - congratulations! Hope it all goes well. Do you have some names picked out - ??

 

[zowi420]

Zowi - congratulations! Hope it all goes well. Do you have some names picked out - ??

Thank you! Check out the "don't count me out" thread that I just posted!

 

[hammer]

NTSB ruled that the crash was due to pilot error...no surprise.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/05/01/lidle.crash.ap/index.html

Of course, all of the legal maneuvering gets me:roll:...airplane manufacturers always get sued when there is a crash.