Snowmaking at Killington

[BushMogulMaster]

We have been through this ad nauseum in the past and they would be completely within their rights to restrict hiking on the ski trails. Not the mountain itself but they certainly can restrict access to facilities and trails under their management.

Right. Ski area operators are given the right to "close" (restrict access to) anything within the area boundary/within their special use permit. Many many many areas do not allow hiking and skiing during pre-season snowmaking. And they have absolutely no obligation to post signage to that effect. If management asks you or tells you not to ski it, you should probably heed their word.

Lots of people were kicked off of A-Basin out here while they were making early season snow. It just makes sense, from the resort operator's perspective.

 

[millerm277]

Ski area operators are given the right to "close" (restrict access to) anything within the area boundary/within their special use permit.

Killington is located on VT state land, not USFS land. I believe there is some type of VT state law that requires them to allow open access to the mountain. (I could be wrong, but I think there something along those lines).

If management asks you or tells you not to ski it, you should probably heed their word. Lots of people were kicked off of A-Basin out here while they were making early season snow. It just makes sense, from the resort operator's perspective.

There has not been a single person ever kicked out of Killington for hiking to my knowledge. And you would think, that considering the times and dates people are planning on hiking are often mentioned on the K-zone, they would be catching them if they had the power to do so/actually cared.


Anyway, no snowmaking at Killington tonight, Spinmaster says they'll probably start up again later this week. (Thursday I'd guess).

 

[ski_resort_observer]

It's a request, the right thing to do is honor it. Remember you park on private property and access thru the base area on private property to the CCSF. You do have public access it being CCSF but not thru private property. Your allowed that public access thru private property if you have permission or it is allowed.. Also, your rationale regarding what ASC allowed is moot, new owners.

 

[riverc0il]

Also, your rationale regarding what ASC allowed is moot, new owners.

Additionally, what was allowed has no bearing on what the operating company's rights are in regards to restricting access if they so desire. I would like to see this law you speak of. While I am sure there is some verbage specifying open access to Vermont State Forest land, I am equally sure there are some restrictions acknowledged, specifically in the lease to the operating company.

 

[bvibert]

While I am sure there is some verbage specifying open access to Vermont State Forest land, I am equally sure there are some restrictions acknowledged, specifically in the lease to the operating company.

This has always been my understanding too. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to get the true answer from someone in the know about VT laws...

I can totally see why an operator would want to keep folks out of the way during certain periods and I believe that should have that right as the lessor. That said I'd think most places would understand the marketing value of pictures and TR's from folks earning turns on their mountain early season, especially among the more enthusiastic skiing population, such as members of forums like these. I'd be surprised if very many operators kick too many people off of their trails this time of year, unless they're causing a clearly dangerous situation..

 

[Greg]

Some vid from a K-zone turn earner yesterday:





Looks like a pretty decent effort.

 

[bvibert]

Kinda hard to see once they got snow on the lens..

 

[ALLSKIING]

A ton of pics already up but more is better.

 

[bvibert]

I love how the snow line just stops abruptly in the last two pics. The contrast between the snow and the greenish/brown ground is cool.

Nice pics Dave, thanks for taking them.

 

[ctenidae]

I love how the snow line just stops abruptly in the last two pics. The contrast between the snow and the greenish/brown ground is cool.

Nice pics Dave, thanks for taking them.

I think that's a ridge. It is a cool effect, though.

 

[2knees]

yeah, thats where great northern crosses double dipper. but still a cool effect.

 

[millerm277]

This has always been my understanding too. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to get the true answer from someone in the know about VT laws...

Laseranimal at K-zone found it.

From paragraph 15 of the lease:

"That the right of ingress and egress granted in paragraph 1 hereof to Lessee is extended to and includes all members of the public."

To me at least, that would mean that Killington would have no power to stop people from hiking, as the entire mountain is on that land.

Oh, and here's his interesting TR...http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19420&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[ALLSKIING]

Killington's snow holding..

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19422

 

[andyzee]

Killington's snow holding..

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19422

Wish I could make it up there, but no can do

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Wow I also read a nice Dawn Patrol TR on Teton Gravity...props to all those who got October turns on the Ice Coast...I was unfortunately not one of them...:0

 

[ALLSKIING]

Wish I could make it up there, but no can do

Plenty of time..

 

[riverc0il]

Laseranimal at K-zone found it.

From paragraph 15 of the lease:

"That the right of ingress and egress granted in paragraph 1 hereof to Lessee is extended to and includes all members of the public."

There has to be more to it than that, otherwise Killington would have not right to "rope" trails or clip tickets for rope ducking (I believe they had a strict policy on this last year). If they can "rope" trails and enforce it during the winter, I think there would be a strong carry over to early season when a "dangerous" situation is present such as snow making and machinery.

 

[millerm277]

There has to be more to it than that, otherwise Killington would have not right to "rope" trails or clip tickets for rope ducking (I believe they had a strict policy on this last year). If they can "rope" trails and enforce it during the winter, I think there would be a strong carry over to early season when a "dangerous" situation is present such as snow making and machinery.

I'll look it up later, but there may not be.

The lift tickets, govern the lifts, which are under K's control. As such, they can clip them for breaking their rules. So, if Killington chooses to "close" a trail, and you ski down it, you are in violation of whatever you agreed to when purchasing that ticket, and they can clip it.

I don't know if Killington has the power to actually force someone off the mountain. Example: Someone hikes up, and skis down a closed trail. What is Killington's power to stop/remove them?

 

[danny p]

Originally Posted by ALLSKIING
Killington's snow holding..

man that just made my morning. all the months of misery with powdr and finally a week of all good news. it wont be long before it won't matter if its legal to hike up because there will be lifts a turnin'. :beer:

 

[ctenidae]

"That the right of ingress and egress granted in paragraph 1 hereof to Lessee is extended to and includes all members of the public."

To me at least, that would mean that Killington would have no power to stop people from hiking, as the entire mountain is on that land.

Depends on what Paragraph 1 says.