Some thoughts on Stratton...

[skibum1321]

I'm not just talking about molehills though. I'm talking about the type of mountain that just grooms everything flat or doesn't have good tree skiing. Maybe I'm too picky but there is a very select group of ski areas that I enjoy. Of the ones I've been to these are: Sugarbush, MRG, Jay, Stowe and Smuggs. I can also have fun at Kmart although it is limited to certain trails and I don't know the woods. Before I get barraged with hateful comments because I left out your mountain I can't comment on Sugarloaf, Cannon, Wildcat, Burke, Bolton or the entire state of NY because I either haven't been there or I wasn't good when I was.

 

[mountaindude]

Yeah, with a guy named Pepi vs. a couple of kids (can't remember names) who hated Stratton. That was kinda entertaining I thought.

The difference hear is we may disagree, but opinions are respected. It seldom gets personal like RSN use to.

As they well should be. The two kids were at times down right nasty. Pepi tried to pass himself off as Olympic medalist Pepi Stiegler...maybe it was. They were entertaining though.

 

[tekweezle]

I'm not just talking about molehills though. I'm talking about the type of mountain that just grooms everything flat or doesn't have good tree skiing. Maybe I'm too picky but there is a very select group of ski areas that I enjoy. Of the ones I've been to these are: Sugarbush, MRG, Jay, Stowe and Smuggs. I can also have fun at Kmart although it is limited to certain trails and I don't know the woods. Before I get barraged with hateful comments because I left out your mountain I can't comment on Sugarloaf, Cannon, Wildcat, Burke, Bolton or the entire state of NY because I either haven't been there or I wasn't good when I was.

You pretty much just mentioned all the "family owned" mountains in North VT! I wish I was close enough to them to do a weekend trip. sadly they are at the up limit of my driving distance.

it;s hard for resorts to be all things to all skiers. Some resorts that do some things well don;t do other things well. it;s so hard for an Eastern ski resort to be "the total package" for all. of the mountains I have skied, Killington and Sugarloaf come close but they win by default because they are 2 of the bigger resorts around here. however, none of them really can compare to what you can find out west.

"Mega resorts " type places like Stratton have a mainstream purpose. They want to provide a balanced if somewhat average skiing experience. I bet they try to groom everything flat more for safety sake than anything. what we may find as "boring" might be challlenging enough for their intended audience. Tree skiing?!! that sounds dangerous!

 

[thetrailboss]

Maybe I'm too picky but there is a very select group of ski areas that I enjoy. Of the ones I've been to these are: Sugarbush, MRG, Jay, Stowe and Smuggs.

It is safe to say that comparing Stratton to these mountains (which are very similar) is like comparing and apple to a bucket of oranges. :wink:

 

[tekweezle]

yeah, if I had a choice I;d take any of those mountains over a trip to stratton any day-all else being equal...or would I?!! Hmmm...let me think about that. in a low snow year like we have had, places like MRG and Sugarbush have had a tough time. Places like Stratton with their snowmaking is better than nothing.

 

[pepperdawg]

I will most likely burn my Flatton free-bee Tommorow or Friday.....glad I read the fine print - It expires April 9th.......


Nothing wrong with going to play in some corn and do laps on one of those fancy-schmancy hi-speed 6-paks on a fine spring day....

 

[skibum1321]

I realize that it is like comparing apples to oranges. I'm saying give me the apples and you can keep the oranges.

 

[madskier6]

You pretty much just mentioned all the "family owned" mountains in North VT!

Just a point of clarification: Stowe is not a "family owned" mountain. It is owned by AIG (American Insurance Group), a mega insurance company who is investing $300 million in Stowe over the next few years. Your point was essentially accurate but I felt the need to clarify who owns Stowe.

Cheers!

 

[tekweezle]

Stowe is owned by an insurance company? i did not know that. I wonder if they will turn Stowe into a mega resort. i doubt that running ski resorts or related services is their forte.

well one thing that could be improved in my opinion is the lodging choices. i haven;t been able to find a reasonable lodging and lift deal. anything I have found seems a little "spendy".

 

[Jean-Pierre Skier]

I skied Stratton for the first time last weekend and I thought it was great. The conditions were pristine and I thought there was some pretty decent variety with respect to the runs. Alot of the runs are perfect for arcing huge GS turns at Mach 3, but there were some good bump runs and the glades were pretty cool as well. I also really liked the high-speed lifts and it's nice to find a lodge that isn't falling in on itself.

I've skied Killington and Mt. Snow for years and always looked down my nose at Stratton, but I may have been wrong about that place. Plus, I'd rather deal with forty-something bankers and lawyers than twenty-something knuckleheads who can't ski and are only there to get loaded.

I agree that Mad River, Sugarbush, Jay Peak and Stowe are totally different experiences, but they are a little further away from NY, NJ, CT and MA so the crowd is different and they attract a different kind of skier due to the terrain. But for Southern Vermont, I give Stratton a nod. I may even turn in my ASC pass for the Stratton-Okemo-Sunapee pass next year.

 

[RISkier]

Stowe is owned by an insurance company? i did not know that. I wonder if they will turn Stowe into a mega resort. i doubt that running ski resorts or related services is their forte.

well one thing that could be improved in my opinion is the lodging choices. i haven;t been able to find a reasonable lodging and lift deal. anything I have found seems a little "spendy".

We really like Stowe, both the village and the skiing. I'm a little concerned. They are building really high end Condos at Spruce and I think they plan a "planned village" there as well. One thing we've really liked about Stowe is that the village and route 108 have lots of really interesting, locally owned establishments. Some can be pricey, but we've found lots of places that are not especially expensive. The Matterhorn and Shed are both fun apres ski bars and you can get decent food at both without breaking the bank (I might be warped cause I'm used to RI prices). Stratton kind of had a pre-fab feel to us, I hope Stowe doesn't go down that path.

 

[skibum1321]

In addition to Stowe, Sugarbush is owned by a corporation. Summit Ventures owns it now - previously it was ASC.

If we want to get technical, MRG would not be family owned either - it's owned by shareholders. All major decisions are put before the board and the shareholders vote on them.

 

[tekweezle]

you guys know what I mean. those north VT resorts preserve the "character of old new england" better because they aren;t owned by ski company/real estate conglomerates who decision making on how long to spin the lifts and make snow is done from afar with an eye strictly on the bottom line. Maybe their distance from the major population centers has something to do with it. in spite of who owns them, I am sure they carried over the local managers who are in tune with their customers. Unfortunately, that is a dying breed due to econmics. I am sure that even those resorts will eventually get into the large scale condo building business because that;s where the new money is.

kind of ironic that the rumor is that most of the major resorts are planning to close earlier than usual the 1st year they started handing cheap season passes. Maybe it;s just the bad snow year but part of me thinks that they got your money already so now they can close season earlier.

 

[skibum1321]

kind of ironic that the rumor is that most of the major resorts are planning to close earlier than usual the 1st year they started handing cheap season passes. Maybe it;s just the bad snow year but part of me thinks that they got your money already so now they can close season earlier.

I'd go more with the fact that it is a bad snow year. The fact is that it has rained a lot this winter and the base just isn't holding up to it. Even in the Northern Greens, where a lot more snow has fallen this winter, bases on the trails aren't too deep because a lot of the snow has been very light and has blown around.

This isn't the first year for cheap passes. ASC has actually had cheap season passes for a couple of years now and I believe some of the others have as well. A lot of resorts definitely do not have cheap passes either - going back to Northern VT the pass prices have not come down at all. Sugarbush and Stowe both hover around $1000 and Smuggs is $450 but has been cheap for years.

 

[Phildozer]

Plus, I'd rather deal with forty-something bankers and lawyers than twenty-something knuckleheads who can't ski and are only there to get loaded.

AMEN!

 

[thetrailboss]

you guys know what I mean. those north VT resorts preserve the "character of old new england" better because they aren;t owned by ski company/real estate conglomerates who decision making on how long to spin the lifts and make snow is done from afar with an eye strictly on the bottom line.

Hmmmm.....this is not really true.

Stowe is owned by AIG, the largest insurance company in the US. It is developing a major real estate component.

Burke is now owned by Ginn and real estate is a major drive.

Sugarbush: real estate, ditto.

Jay Peak: Owned by a "ski company/real estate conglomerate" named Mont Saint Sauvier International...resorts in Canada, the US, and at one time France. At last check, a major golf course and base area development was in the works....

Not a fair characterization in my book that these are different.

 

[Greg]

you guys know what I mean. those north VT resorts preserve the "character of old new england" better because they aren;t owned by ski company/real estate conglomerates who decision making on how long to spin the lifts and make snow is done from afar with an eye strictly on the bottom line. Maybe their distance from the major population centers has something to do with it. in spite of who owns them, I am sure they carried over the local managers who are in tune with their customers. Unfortunately, that is a dying breed due to econmics. I am sure that even those resorts will eventually get into the large scale condo building business because that;s where the new money is.

I think Sugarbush is the epitome on how to modernize a resort, yet not lose its roots. The simple fact that Sugarbush President, Win Smith made himself availble for a live face-to-face meeting to discuss the resort's vision and direction with local skiers just like you and me proves this point. Certainly not a faceless conglomerate there. It will be interesting to see this results of the Lincoln Peak development and how that impacts the vibe at the Bush. Some of the Claybrook condos are bordering on obscenely large (2K+ square feet and 4 to 5 bedrooms). Luckily, there are only a few of those units. Nevertheless, I think Summit Ventures has a strong vision for the resort and won't compromise the mountain's character. A perfect example of this is the Castlerock Double with the wide chair spacing and keeping snowmaking off the Rock. I think they get it. Can't wait to sip a microbrew in the new Castlerock Pub! :beer:

 

[madskier6]

In addition to Stowe, Sugarbush is owned by a corporation. Summit Ventures owns it now - previously it was ASC.

This is technically correct but Summit Ventures is basically owned by 3 guys (Win Smith, Adam Greshin and Bob Ackland). They operate it in somewhat of a "family owned" manner as evidenced by Win Smith's willingness to meet with posters in the SkiMRV forum (and any other interested parties) last Saturday to discuss developments at Sugarbush. I also saw Adam Greshin operating the Castlerock lift last Saturday for a period of time (yes actually being a liftie and loading people onto the chair!). This would not be done by the owners of a faceless, large public corporation.

The fact that they decided to incorporate as Summit Ventures for the purpose of owning SB is a smart move. With all the potential liability associated with operating a ski resort these days, anyone who is willing to put their personal assets on the line is a fool (with all the plaintiffs lawyers out there suing ski resorts).

At least Summit Ventures is not a faceless public company like ASC that has to answer to thousands of shareholders regarding how much profit the company earned this quarter!

 

[tekweezle]

This is technically correct but Summit Ventures is basically owned by 3 guys (Win Smith, Adam Greshin and Bob Ackland). They operate it in somewhat of a "family owned" manner as evidenced by Win Smith's willingness to meet with posters in the SkiMRV forum (and any other interested parties) last Saturday to discuss developments at Sugarbush. I also saw Adam Greshin operating the Castlerock lift last Saturday for a period of time (yes actually being a liftie and loading people onto the chair!). This would not be done by the owners of a faceless, large public corporation.

The fact that they decided to incorporate as Summit Ventures for the purpose of owning SB is a smart move. With all the potential liability associated with operating a ski resort these days, anyone who is willing to put their personal assets on the line is a fool (with all the plaintiffs lawyers out there suing ski resorts).

At least Summit Ventures is not a faceless public company like ASC that has to answer to thousands of shareholders regarding how much profit the company earned this quarter!

That;s what I meant.

 

[sankaty]

Incidentally, Stowe has a long, long history of owenership by AIG, so it's not a new thing. AIG was founded by C.V. Starr (of Front Four fame), who was an early investor in the mountain.

My impression is that several of AIG's executives have intimate relationships with the mountain and the town. It's possible that the new development push will result in changes that end up being unpopular, but not because Stowe was bought out by a large, impersonal corporation.

In response to the comparisons between the northern VT mountains (Stowe, SB, MRG, Jay, etc.) and the southern VT mountains (Okemo, Stratton, Mt. Snow, etc.) hardly anyone argues that the northern giants don't win just about every category (snow, terain challenge and variety, alpine beauty). But for those of us with family obligations (such as a 15 month old daughter), even day trips can be hard to come by. When they succeed in moving the northern moutains about two hours closer to CT, I'll be very happy to ski them with greater frequency.

In the meantime, I'll happily ski the bump runs and pleasant, if unchallenging, cruisers down south, and count the months/years until my daughter is old enough to ski (and can show me how to properly mash the moguls on National).

Best,
James