Speaking of pets.....

[wa-loaf]

Def. don't want to dock a Lab's tail. Mofo would end up swimming in circles.

Which is good for comedic purposes, but not so good for retrieving. Unless you're a really good shot and can get the ducks to splash down inside the dog's turning radius.

A rudderless Lab would probably keep swimming in circles, never quite realizing he isn't going anyware.

"Ooo! Stick!"

"Aw, no stick."

"Oooh! Stick!"

"Aw, no stick."

Ad infinitum

You guys owe me a new keyboard. :lol:

 

[bvibert]

A bit of skin maybe. But think of the sensitivity of that area. Plus we're talking about doing something to a person versus an animal. Some of the posters in the "Man Kills Cat" might call that equivalent. I don't.

Still, this thread got me thinking and I will agree that declawing is a bit inhumane.

Yeah, but small kids cry all the time anyway, they probably wouldn't even know the difference.

 

[hammer]

A bit of skin maybe. But think of the sensitivity of that area. Plus we're talking about doing something to a person versus an animal. Some of the posters in the "Man Kills Cat" might call that equivalent. I don't.

Still, this thread got me thinking and I will agree that declawing is a bit inhumane.

What's inhumane about it? I don't think the surgery aspect of it is a problem...people get their pets spayed and neutered all the time (for good reason) and that's elective surgery.

Is it because the cat gets confused once it doesn't have claws? I don't have any cats (would cause too many allergy problems) so I don't know...

 

[severine]

From what I understand, the surgery and recovery are quite painful for the cat. Plus they're designed to have claws. Does it affect their movement/alignment/whatever after removing them?

I'm not a cat person so I really can't weigh in on that part of this discussion. My family always declawed cats because they felt their furniture was more important. That said, they also tend to have cats that piss all over their house and do other unsavory things. Payback? Who knows...

Spaying/neutering is different, IMHO. People get that done, too. Yes, it's elective, but reducing the number of unwanted feral pets is important for everyone.

 

[Greg]

Our cat seemed to tolerate the recovery pretty well. He was obviously uncomfortable (or perhaps in pain - he never told me), but I don't think it lasted more than a few days. They put on this surgical "glue" that keeps the wound covered and it sort of wears away eventually as it heals.

I will say he is a biter since that it's his only mechanism of defense (mostly when I antagonize the bastard ). He's about 10 years old now (had him declawed as a kitten) and it doesn't seem like he's holding a grudge. He's excellent about using the litter box. Thank god.

 

[Marc]

Which is good for comedic purposes, but not so good for retrieving. Unless you're a really good shot and can get the ducks to splash down inside the dog's turning radius.

A rudderless Lab would probably keep swimming in circles, never quite realizing he isn't going anyware.

"Ooo! Stick!"

"Aw, no stick."

"Oooh! Stick!"

"Aw, no stick."

Ad infinitum

On the other had, the reduction in tail chasing time would make for a much more productive Lab.

On the downside, I'd have to begin dusting the coffee table again, sans rearward facing autosweep function on the dog.

 

[Dr Skimeister]

Tail docking, ear cropping and feline declawing are three procedures that are constant fodder for debate.

Ear cropping is done for no reason other than the cosmetics of it. In 25+ years of being a veterinarian, I have never cropped a dog's ears. The few dogs that I do see with cropped ears anymore have usually had the procedure done by the "breeder"-and more often than not, it looks like it was done on someone's work bench with an old scissor.

Tail docking has more of a functionality, based on a dog's breeds intended original purpose. The procedure is typically done when a pup is but days old and results in one or two absorbable stitches being thrown.

Declawing is the most controversial of the three procedures. There is one school of thought that says that it is a procedure that does not benefit the cat at all. I am a strong advocate of cats best kept as inside pets. I have no doubt that cats live longer, healthier lives as house-kept pets. I constantly see injury and disease that the cats would not have had the opportunity to succumb to had they been indoor pets. Many cats can be shown from the get-go that inappropriate scratching in a house is just that-inappropriate. These cats can be encouraged to take their scratching behavior to acceptable places such as scratching posts, boards and boxes. Some cats don't quite buy into this program, either due to their own obsinance or because they weren't properly trained. In that case, I accept declawing as an option. I believe that the temporary perception of discomfort that the cats may experience is far outweighed by the benefit of the cat being kept indoors. Too often people make the choice of allowing a cat that is thought to inappropriately claw things to go outside, even though they may have originally intended for the cat to be kept indoors.

 

[Greg]

Declawing is the most controversial of the three procedures. There is one school of thought that says that it is a procedure that does not benefit the cat at all. I am a strong advocate of cats best kept as inside pets. I have no doubt that cats live longer, healthier lives as house-kept pets. I constantly see injury and disease that the cats would not have had the opportunity to succumb to had they been indoor pets. Many cats can be shown from the get-go that inappropriate scratching in a house is just that-inappropriate. These cats can be encouraged to take their scratching behavior to acceptable places such as scratching posts, boards and boxes. Some cats don't quite buy into this program, either due to their own obsinance or because they weren't properly trained. In that case, I accept declawing as an option. I believe that the temporary perception of discomfort that the cats may experience is far outweighed by the benefit of the cat being kept indoors. Too often people make the choice of allowing a cat that is thought to inappropriately claw things to go outside, even though they may have originally intended for the cat to be kept indoors.

Interesting perspective. I assume you're a vet? Our declawed (fronts) cat is always kept indoors. In addition to the points you made, I think the fact that we don't have to worry about our cat wrecking the place makes us appreciate him more. Now the other argument is that if you're not willing to accept the fact that cats have claws and like to scratch things, then you shouldn't get one. I guess that's a valid argument too. How about those situations where say one person wants a cat and the other doesn't because of the scratching thing? Declawing could be considered a compromise.

Our cat actually still likes to go to town on furniture using the scratching motion so quite possibly he never would have been one that we could've trained. Since he's declawed, we say have at it! If he had claws, I would have spent the past ten years chasing him around, and might have even eventually kicked him to the curb (not literally!).

 

[ed-drum]

If you don't want your cat to claw things, put tin foil on it. They hate the stuff. My cats when kittens would sometimes go potty in the plants. Tin foil solved the problem. There is more than one solution to stopping an animal from doing things. Don't like the cat trying to eat your dinner? Blow in their face. They hate that too.

 

[wa-loaf]

If you don't want your cat to claw things, put tin foil on it. They hate the stuff. My cats when kittens would sometimes go potty in the plants. Tin foil solved the problem. There is more than one solution to stopping an animal from doing things. Don't like the cat trying to eat your dinner? Blow in their face. They hate that too.

Double sided tape works good too, they don't like sticky stuff. We also kept an empty beer can around with a few pennies in it. If they are doing something you don't like, you chuck it next to them. Really freaks em out and they stop whatever it is pretty quickly.

 

[hardline]

Our cat seemed to tolerate the recovery pretty well. He was obviously uncomfortable (or perhaps in pain - he never told me), but I don't think it lasted more than a few days. They put on this surgical "glue" that keeps the wound covered and it sort of wears away eventually as it heals.

I will say he is a biter since that it's his only mechanism of defense (mostly when I antagonize the bastard ). He's about 10 years old now (had him declawed as a kitten) and it doesn't seem like he's holding a grudge. He's excellent about using the litter box. Thank god.

my current cat has such a complex personality. she hold grudges. like to eat her food one peice at a time out of her paw. she can pick things up with her paw. plus the cat thiks it can talk. if you talk at her she will wait for you to finish talking then meow back in different pitches.this cat wasn't declawed because it likes being outside. we have no mice, moles, or little birds in the yard. i have quite the animal grave yard.

 

[Marc]

Double sided tape works good too, they don't like sticky stuff. We also kept an empty beer can around with a few pennies in it. If they are doing something you don't like, you chuck it next to them. Really freaks em out and they stop whatever it is pretty quickly.

You guys are weird... putting tin foil and double sided tape on your cat.

 

[playoutside]

We have 3 cats, 2 are declawed because they came to us this way. I would not declaw a cat, I don't want my furniture ruined either. The youngest I got as a kitten and she has her claws and does not scratch furniture. It's a commitment to make sure they don't scratch furniture...squirt bottle consistently used when they scratch stuff works pretty good as negative reinforcement. Positive stuff helps too. The kitten has a 5 foot tall scratch post that she climbs and scratches, we fed her on the top ledge to make it something she used -- she had to climb up for dinner. The boys with no claws like to "scratch" the post too -- the kitten sometimes allows it.

 

[drjeff]

Cropping ears, well I have 2 boxers whose ears are natural and floppy, and personally I think that it adds alot to their character and expressive abilities.

De-Clawing. I actually own a de-clawed dog! My older boxer, who is 10 now, had what the vet best's guess was an auto-immune disease where her nail beds would basically have a reaction against her nails/claws, causing the nail/claw to seperate from the nail bed Best case scenario when this happened, she'd have a large, often bloody "glorified hang-nail", worst case scenario when it happend, she'd rip the entire nail/claw off the nail bed leaving open, exposed, SENSITIVE tissue exposed.

We had her for a while on medication that basically is analagous to medication that organ transplant recipients take to prevent rejection, with little effect, except for costing us about $150 a month for her medications

Then the vet suggested as an alternative that we could have her de-clawed. We started with her front paws 1st and then had the back ones(the "better"ones) a few months later. That was 7 years ago, and she's doing fine(although she does have the occasional traction issues now on wet grass and icy surfaces )

 

[deadheadskier]

Cropping ears, well I have 2 boxers whose ears are natural and floppy, and personally I think that it adds alot to their character and expressive abilities.

Good for you drjeff. The ear cropping thing gets me the most. I think it should be outlawed. Tail cropping I can kind of get with working dogs or certain breeds where the owner might be forced to wipe it's ass if not cropped :lol:....but the ears, never made much sense to me. Would love to meet your floppy eared boxers someday.

 

[riverc0il]

I have no problem with cropping/docking of dogs that are being used for their intended purpose, since the procedures serve a purpose. Otherwise, I'm not real comfortable with it, but I'm not against it.

If alternations serve an important purposes (such as spay or neutering for example), then I have 100% no problem with it. But how many dogs that are otherwise physically altered are not done just for looks? Let's face it... the amount of pet quality animals is far greater than the amount that actually work in the field they were breed for. A lot of docking happens just because of some AKC standard on looks (which may serve true to the original intent of the breed but has long since passed for most pet quality dogs, especially dogs in the show ring). Docking for looks gets a big thumbs down from me.

Declawing has its purposes and for a 100% indoor cat (especially in a household with children), it probably serves a good purpose. Though personally, my dislike for claws suggests that I just not get a cat

In reference to Greg's mention about the double standard, I thinking docking dongs is pretty lame and not needed--so no double standard here

 

[ed-drum]

You don't put tin foil or tape on the cat. You put it on the things that you want it to stay away from. Some people's mouth runs faster than their brains! I hope that was a joke.

 

[wa-loaf]

You don't put tin foil or tape on the cat. You put it on the things that you want it to stay away from. Some people's mouth runs faster than their brains! I hope that was a joke.

I'm 95% sure Marc was joking. The other 5%? Well . . .

 

[WJenness]

I'm 95% sure Marc was joking. The other 5%? Well . . .

The goat thought he was joking too.. :lol:

-w

 

[Marc]

You don't put tin foil or tape on the cat. You put it on the things that you want it to stay away from. Some people's mouth runs faster than their brains! I hope that was a joke.

Welcome to AZ... you must be new here.